The UnitiCore - tested

Felix H posted:

Hi MM - Thanks for writing the report. Which iFi product do you have on your switch and what's the effect?

The one to go for is the iPower. It makes things sound a bit more natural. I had one for a while on my Netgear switch but sold when I got an internally powered Cisco. The Cisco made far more difference than the power supply. There are a number of threads about this. 

Thanks. The iFi looks cool on paper. Which Cisco switch you got HH? 

Felix H posted:

Keler Pierre - I didn't get your logic why UnitiServe + aftermarket linear psu would be better than UnitiCore, which already has Naim's linear PSU inside the box?

Felix

because i have compared the sound quality of the core vs unitserve tp ps . The sound was very very similar. Without the tp ps, the core was better.

After i bought a much better ps for the serve, uptone js2, and the sound quality improved clearly. So i conclude that with the ps i have now, it is better than the core.

Felix H posted:

Thanks. The iFi looks cool on paper. Which Cisco switch you got HH? 

the cisco 2960 catalyst, refurbished and factory reset on ebay.  You have a lot of posts for it. I am not sure to keep mine...i will compare tomorrow vs paul pang switch with the second output of my uptone audio js2 ps.  But the cisco is without problem better than stock and common switch as netgear gs or dlink.   You can find the cisco for around 50/60 GBP.

the only review that matters is naims review when the units are ready.let them get on with it please

audio1946 posted:

the only review that matters is naims review when the units are ready.let them get on with it please

Don't forget that some of us have had our Core for nearly six months.....

Thanks Pierre!

Ah ok I looked at threads  - so this is the Catalyst 2960-8TC-L. Cisco site says they'll be supporting it until mid 2018.  I'd take Cisco reliability over cheapo consumer switches any day, and I actually happen to prefer CLI instead of web UI's. But this Cisco comes with an internal SMPS, hmmm...  In Ken's switch thread he decided to stay with the iFi, and Sbilotta seems to have done even better by using a linear psu on his (consumer?) switch...

Interesting that uptone audio + UnitiServe is doing a better job than the Core internal PSU. One obvious advantage of uptone of course is that it is external!

You said the audible difference was small. But the differences due to psu must be much bigger when using S/PDIF instead of Ethernet. Did you try S/PDIF to NDS in your Core vs UnitiServe comparison? 

Felix

Of the people who have tried the Cisco, there have been more choosing to keep it. I'm not sure that the fact it has an internal SMPS is that important when the hifi is on a separate mains circuit, as it should be. The Israeli power supply that is often used with the Serve is also SMPS. The idea of an 'audiophile' switch such as the Paul Pang seems like a bit of a ruse to separate people from their money. I'm not sure how a switch knows it's playing music rather than printing Word documents. 

audio1946 posted:

the only review that matters is naims review when the units are ready. ...

Why so?

Hi Felix,  before this drifts into a LPS vs SMPS thread,  please don't assume one is superior to another,  some LPS can be noisy, it depends on the voltage regulator used & how its applied.  Also a lot of off-the-shelf regulators date back many years - e.g. Naim have moved on from LM317 to DR regulation.    SMPS when designed correctly can be lower noise than LPS,  remember every modern electronic device on the planet has SMPS,  audio seems to one of the last bastions of LPS,  that said Linn have been SMPS for a long while.  

The iFi iPower mentioned in the thread is SMPS with some very specific noise cancellation features that (iFi claim) gives significantly lower noise than an 'audiophile LPS'  1uV vs 20uV.    I'm guilty of encouraging the forum to consider them  .............. forum, https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/ifi-ipower-smps-carried-over-from-hifi-corner

audio1946 posted:

the only review that matters is naims review when the units are ready.let them get on with it please

i responded to felix and the post was not opened by me. As for naims reviews, what is that?  naim don't review their products...

Felix H posted:

Thanks Pierre!

Ah ok I looked at threads  - so this is the Catalyst 2960-8TC-L. Cisco site says they'll be supporting it until mid 2018.  I'd take Cisco reliability over cheapo consumer switches any day, and I actually happen to prefer CLI instead of web UI's. But this Cisco comes with an internal SMPS, hmmm...  In Ken's switch thread he decided to stay with the iFi, and Sbilotta seems to have done even better by using a linear psu on his (consumer?) switch...

Interesting that uptone audio + UnitiServe is doing a better job than the Core internal PSU. One obvious advantage of uptone of course is that it is external!

You said the audible difference was small. But the differences due to psu must be much bigger when using S/PDIF instead of Ethernet. Did you try S/PDIF to NDS in your Core vs UnitiServe comparison? 

Felix

ethernet is better by a clear step, when the network is optimized with good lans, network isolation, linear ps on switch....

As for the cisco, it is more dynamic and there is better drive. but the cisco is a little edgy on ears, as for my ears. I put a good power cord on it and the sound is a little softer.

You will have to test by yourself.  I normally will test the paul pang switch with my big linear ps tomorrow.

When i bought my nds, i was not aware of the importance of network optimization :  it changes a lot the sound, when all the tweaks are done...

Hungryhalibut posted:

Of the people who have tried the Cisco, there have been more choosing to keep it. I'm not sure that the fact it has an internal SMPS is that important when the hifi is on a separate mains circuit, as it should be. The Israeli power supply that is often used with the Serve is also SMPS. The idea of an 'audiophile' switch such as the Paul Pang seems like a bit of a ruse to separate people from their money. I'm not sure how a switch knows it's playing music rather than printing Word documents. 

the israeli tp ps is linear, not smps.  A lot of forums like computer audiophile, devialet chat or even naim forums are relating the benefit of the paul pang switch with additional linear ps.

If i will not find the benefit of it vs the cisco, i will return it. ( it costs around 150 GBP). I will just loose the postage.  My uptone ps has 2 outputs, so i can power my serve and also the switch.

We will see....

Mike-B posted:

Hi Felix,  before this drifts into a LPS vs SMPS thread,  please don't assume one is superior to another,  some LPS can be noisy, it depends on the voltage regulator used & how its applied.  Also a lot of off-the-shelf regulators date back many years - e.g. Naim have moved on from LM317 to DR regulation.    SMPS when designed correctly can be lower noise than LPS,  remember every modern electronic device on the planet has SMPS,  audio seems to one of the last bastions of LPS,  that said Linn have been SMPS for a long while.  

The iFi iPower mentioned in the thread is SMPS with some very specific noise cancellation features that (iFi claim) gives significantly lower noise than an 'audiophile LPS'  1uV vs 20uV.    I'm guilty of encouraging the forum to consider them  .............. forum, https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/ifi-ipower-smps-carried-over-from-hifi-corner

i had before the ifi power 12v on my switch : it was better than the stock smps. But my last israeli ps and now the uptone gave better fluency, bigger soundstage and better true tones colors than ifi. It was immediate.

You may think the TP is linear......

Hungryhalibut posted:

You may think the TP is linear......

All TP products have transformer power to the various versions of regulators.    

Mike-B posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

You may think the TP is linear......

All TP products have transformer power to the various versions of regulators.    

i just read the description of the tp ps on their own site: they call it linear power supply...

My serve was before powered by this ps. After i powered my serve with uptone js2, and the tp ps replaced the ifi power 12v on my netgear gs105. So i could make the comparaison.....For technical specifications, i don't bother, just the improved sound quality is important for me.

For me, the problem with the cisco is its smps, which gives some hardness and edginess to the sound. I improved this with an acoustic revive lan isolator between the router and the cisco, and put a high quality used power cord on it.

The netgear with good linear ps have a nicier sound, more true tone colors.  But i preferred, overall, the cisco for its better drive and dynamics.   The best world  would be the cisco with a possibility to power it by a good linear ps....but its 48 v don't allow this.

Mike-B posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

You may think the TP is linear......

All TP products have transformer power to the various versions of regulators.    

Not all Mike - HH is correct here as the higher current versions (such as the Serve version) use a switching supply. My old TXPS was linear though and as you say, as are most of the other versions. 

James

OK I hear ya,  but I'm not convinced,  show me where the info is or post an internals picture. 

I am using the cisco catalyst switches between the network and the the streamers (272, NDS).

I'm using iFi everywhere else in my home network (I've got 5 switches).

I was able to configure the cisco that discovery of the uniticore was possible - Trick is to configure the port connected to nds as desktop, and the one connected to other downstream switch or the UnitiCore as 'Cisco Access Point'.

MangoMonkey posted:

I am using the cisco catalyst switches between the network and the the streamers (272, NDS).

I'm using iFi everywhere else in my home network (I've got 5 switches).

I was able to configure the cisco that discovery of the uniticore was possible - Trick is to configure the port connected to nds as desktop, and the one connected to other downstream switch or the UnitiCore as 'Cisco Access Point'.

i don't know why you have these difficulties. I had nothing to configure with my cisco 2960 switch and use nds and unitserve. I plugged it and all played.  You may ask simon.

Pierre is right, the 2960 in its default configuration works perfectly supporting home streaming and multicast discovery. Sure there are some tweaks at the command line interface  for performance reasons you can do but these are not required for effective operation. MM your web tool configuration you describe would have no impact on multicast data (as used by discovery) or the vast majority of home network functionality so I suspect something else was at play other than in the switch - or it was not running in its default state.