Atc Scm 11 substitution

Seems a strange policy as every dealer I have come across is only too happy to allow home demo - in my view a home demo is critical as room acoustics play a big part.

i could recommend the usual suspects but my advice would be find a dealer that will allow home demos as that's the only real way you can get the sound you want. 

Gary

I have ATC SCM 11 mk2 and they are not in the least fatiguing. Have you replaced the metal input connectors with jumper cables ?

fathings cat posted:

Seems a strange policy as every dealer I have come across is only too happy to allow home demo - in my view a home demo is critical as room acoustics play a big part.

 

Gary

That tends to be the case in the UK, but I notice posters outside the UK regularly flag that we're the lucky  ones over here, and even in-shop demos can be challenging in some regions.

I'm about to look at a set of small speakers to go with a second system, preliminary listening has me looking at the Neat Iotas, B&W CM6 s2 and ProAC Tablettes as my probables.

It's more than likely that you have a lot of hard flat surfaces in your listening room.  just increasing the amount of soft furnishings is often enough to tame such HF bright rooms (simpler and cheaper than trying to get different speakers).

There are two glaring omissions in your post...

First: You haven't told us what your source component(s) are (and did you actually use the same type of source and amp when you auditioned the speakers?).

Second (and this is forgivable as you didn't realise room acoustics played such a big part):  You haven't given us any information about your listening environment - some sparsely furnished rooms ring like a bell at HF.  The more information the better (size, shape, openings, wall types, glass, floor type & covering and furniture are an absolute minimum and other info may still be required - anything that can reflect or absorb sound).

Thank you both.

I agree, home demo is a must. But it is almost impossible here to home demo most of the speakers.

Alanbass1, no, i didn't.

Huge: No, source in the listening room was different. I use Sqeezebox Touch without external dac, connected with RAC-DIN cable. All music files in flac format. 

My room is 4 x 4 meters. One speaker is positioned close to the left wall. I am sitting on my bed while listening, so there is a soft surface just in front the speakers (and also the wall behind my bed). Behind one of the speaker there is a window, but it is covered with thick fabric. 

My suggestion would be that the amp and speakers are showing up the shortcomings source. Can you try an ND5xs?

First...   HH's comment is very pertinent:  Same Amp, same speakers, different source and something changes - so logically you should first investigate the source rather than blaming the speakers!

Second "One speaker is positioned close to the left wall", not ideal and what is on that wall, any HF absobption? (otherwise you'll get reflection here).

What about floor or ceiling reflections - we still don't have the full picture.

Having said that, ATC speakers are very revealing of the quality of upstream components, and a SBT isn't in the same league as the rest of the system, so look to HH's point about the source FIRST, before blaming the speakers.

Yes, the two variables are source and room. As the room is easier to play with, though not necessarily easy to resolve, maybe have a go: If you clap your hands sharply, around the room, especially where the speakers are, do you hear a distinct echo or echoes? If so that is one indication that the room may need taming.

You say you've repositioned the speakers with some improvement, maybe try more, and vary the listening position, even if it means moving the bed - away from the wall can be beneficial (at this point don't worry too much about practicalities, that can come if you do find something works better). If your floor is hard surface, try covering with something soft between you and the speaker - bed coverings, strewn clothes, anything will do to see if there is a significant effect. You could also try propping a pillow or large cushion on the side walls (especially the one close to a speaker) - imagine the wall is a mirror (better still, get someone to hold a mirror flat against the wall and move it around while you watch from the listening position to identify the right spot): the cushion should be put where the reflections of the speakers would appear from the listening position. 

Eve any of these things make the sound come close to what you liked in the dealer's room, then you can start more deatailed assessment.

Better evaluation of the room can be done with REW software (room equalisation wizard), free and downloadable, though it would require a measuring microphone to use it. It is very good for assessing what is happening in the room in a more methodical way.

a final question: what speakers did you have before, and how did they sound? (presumably with same amp and source?).

You can play with the room, and all those ideas are great, but you simply cannot polish a turd, i.e. the SBT. Changing the speakers won't do a lot unless you can go for something really unrevealing. The ATCs are very revealing, which is one of the reasons they are so good. One might even say that the Nait's not really up to them. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

You can play with the room, and all those ideas are great, but you simply cannot polish a turd, i.e. the SBT. Changing the speakers won't do a lot unless you can go for something really unrevealing. The ATCs are very revealing, which is one of the reasons they are so good. One might even say that the Nait's not really up to them. 

I don't disagree, however my suggestions are because it is possible that the room is a significant factor and it is fairly easy to play about a bit at zero or negligible cost and see if there is scope to improve and get it at least livable, whereas changing the source clearly requires available funding (and the OP can't have home demo to try).

Hungryhalibut posted:

... but you simply cannot polish a turd ...

You can if it's a copralite!   

Inserting a DAC between the SBT and amp can lift the quality a lot.  Chord Mojo or Hugo, or the Naim DAC or DACV1 are worthy options, if you want to keep the SBT.  I still have mine.

Nick

That said, I agree with suggestions re taming room acoustics.

There we go, get your MoJo and have a successfully polished turd!

Actually that's a very good source for a Nait 5Si and ATC11s, all for less than £525
(£400  for the Mojo, and allowing up to £125 for the 3.5mm jack to 5pin DIN cable.)

The magic of Chord to the rescue! It's certainly well worth a go, and a lot cheaper than a Naim streamer. I seem to recall that one can upgrade the power supply for the SBT, so with that and the Dac it would be well shiny. 

A beautifully polished response!

Thank you for all suggestions.

My previous sistem was Rotel 06 with Kef IQ 30 speakers.

Difference when Naim was connected to the KEF speakers was huge.

Sqeezebox is quite a good dac, but will try some better.

Thank you for suggestions. Will try (beside naim dac since i can not aford it).

After all, music maters

Re DACs, I haven't heard it myself, but Mojo is reputedly almost as good as Hugo, so is amazing value for money and well worth it if you can afford. A cheaper DAC that gets good comments on hear as being very good for its minimal cost is the Audioquest Dragonfly, though whether or how much better than the DAC in the squeezebox I leave to others to advise.

Freudian slip - here not hear!

Hi Sun,

if you like what ATCs COULD do,  there're two possibilities either you go active or replace the nait (not suitable, you should go up the range,SN at least, though I only appreciated them using202/200 ).

Tablette 10 or new studio SM100 should be of your liking ,but again, I think you should upgrade your amp sooner or later, and won't give exactly the sonic signature ATC are so additive.

Antonio, yes, I like Atc. Unfortunately I don't have finace to go SN or active speakers for now.

But I am now (beside room treatment as suggested above) seriously considering adding a DAC. 

Two questions:

Is it better to add a dac to my source (Sqeezebox Touch) or consider other streamer?

If i go with Chord Mojo, does a 3.5 jack degrade sound quality compared to RAC?

Going up the range to an SN2 or separates while keeping the analogue out from the SBT would just show-up the limitations of the SBT even more clearly.  In your case, you definitely need to sort out the digital to analogue part of your source first, before getting more transparent electronics.

Both routes to improve the source are valid.  However getting a streamer that will match the quality of the SBT + Mojo combination will cost you a lot more than £525 (for instance the NDX is £3700, and some people still prefer the Chord Hugo with a lesser digital source!).  However, if you're looking to future system upgrades and you've got that sort of money available, it may be worthwhile, but for now (and even taking your amp to SN2 or 202/200 level) the Mojo is plenty good enough.

A 3.5mm jack can have pretty much the same audio quality as Phono RCA connectors (DIN, BNC and XLR are superior, but that's another story).  The main difference here will be the quality of the cable, not the connector (and you can get bad sounding phono cables just as you can get bad sounding 3.5mm jack cables).  Go for a 3.5mm jack to 5 pin DIN cable rather than using the phono connections on the Naim amp - that will get you the best sound from the Naim amp.

Sun King posted:

Antonio, yes, I like Atc. Unfortunately I don't have finace to go SN or active speakers for now.

But I am now (beside room treatment as suggested above) seriously considering adding a DAC. 

Two questions:

Is it better to add a dac to my source (Sqeezebox Touch) or consider other streamer?

If i go with Chord Mojo, does a 3.5 jack degrade sound quality compared to RAC?

 

Others on here do use Mojo into Naim amps - I guess if you search 3.5 you'll probably find much discussion

SBT with linear psu is vastly inferior to, say, a unitiqute I know I sold this latter to a friend using SN as amp. 

Streamer is as important as dac.