Fraim vs SC DR?

Darren what a choice, Fraim will add to the whole system and will SC DR, i can say couple of months ago i was in the same position on Fraim - my system had always been on Quadsphire rack but the uplift since moving on to the Fraim has to be heard - one thing the SC will be easier to demon than a Fraim -

and as you day trade In HCDR for SCDR

At the risk of being slightly controversial I would suggest the SCDR as perhaps the best option. I'm also pretty sure there will be a few forum members popping up shortly saying that the Fraim is by far the best upgrade option you can possibly make to your kit but to be honest I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with the Fraim.

Over the last year or so I have managed to pick up two six shelf Fraims, which has been traditionally divided into a 'brains & brawn' stack. Now don't get me wrong it is very good but before the Fraim I was using a Bamboo Quadraspire and I have to say that there was a lovely organic flow to music on the Quadraspire that the Fraim seems to lack in slightly. However, the bass on the Fraim has to be heard to be believed but it's lost some of that magical 'live' sound I got so use to with the Quadraspire. In fact I still have the Quadraspires out in the garage as I'm loathed to sell them, and I have put them back into the system on at least one occasion just to check it's not my imagination.

As always I should add the caveat that this is what I'm hearing in the context of my system and other may experience things differently.

Just do them both. Sounds like you will eventually in any case, so better to just toss a coin over which to do first than agonise over it. Assuming that you actually like what a SCDR does to a 282, of course - it seems not everybody does.

I have a non DR SC on my 282 and like what it does. What is it about the DRrd SC that people don't like?  

cyclo posted:

I have a non DR SC on my 282 and like what it does. What is it about the DRrd SC that people don't like?  

That would be getting off topic here but I don't think there is anything specific about a DR SC that people don't like, just like most things in audio, it's room, system & person dependent, not to mention cost vs performance.  From what I have read, the majority think the DR version is better then the non DR on the 282 but I have a feeling the comment might be more towards some don't feel the upgrade (vs a HC) is worth it vs cost.

Back on topic, thanks for the reply's so far.  As far as getting them both now, that would be ideal, but being audio is just a hobby (& not my only one) I prefer to make my purchases with funds I have previously set aside & currently have just made some other larger purchases, so I'm not really wanting to spend additional on audio then what I had planned.

My thoughts are, if I currently had one of the other well regarded racks such as the Quadraspire, I think I might lean more towards the SC DR but being my current rack is more basic, even though the cost is more, it makes more sense to go Fraim.  Having the Fraim will also allow me to take full advantage of the SC when the times comes.  My current rack is of a more typical size so my DIN cables lie touching the back of the rack, so going to a Fraim would allow my HiLine to hang freely off the back of the rack, which should be an improvement as well. 

I would vote for Fraim. In my journey I was most amazed about the investments which had nothing to do with black boxes, meaning Fraim, cables, electricity and room acoustics. These are the things which make the black boxes really sing. While I never had an option to make the comparison between the impact of the two A to B, but I would scale the SC to be more subtle then the Fraim, unless your end goal is the 252

Fraim is excellent and I think it would be my choice, of the two options. I had two stacks of it about ten years ago, but sold it when I sold my 552/300 system. Since then it's become stupidly expensive - £860 for base, which consists of two veneered bits of MDF, a bit of glass and some machined metal parts. Then it's £550 for each level. You can sometimes find good used sets, though in Canada that's less likely than the UK. 

For what it's worth, I've been very happy with my Quadraspire SVT bamboo rack, which works well and is nowhere near as fiddly. 

There is some debate on here about the 'optimum' PS for a 282. Some say HiCapDR, others say SupercapDR. What most people would agree on (I belive) is that you will hear a significant improvement with a Fraim over a basic DIY rack. All your current black boxes and future upgrades will also show their best from being supported (and isolated) properly. Your system is very capable and really needs a decent rack to maximise performance.

Fraim is expensive and other good supports are available as HH has pointed out. But my vote would be go for the Fraim (before SupercapDR) if you can afford it. If not still go for a good quality rack like Quadraspire, Hutter, Isoblue or the like.

Bert Schurink posted:

I would vote for Fraim. In my journey I was most amazed about the investments which had nothing to do with black boxes, meaning Fraim, cables, electricity and room acoustics. These are the things which make the black boxes really sing. While I never had an option to make the comparison between the impact of the two A to B, but I would scale the SC to be more subtle then the Fraim, unless your end goal is the 252

I hope it's not subtle... I'm getting an SCDR on loan, next week from my dealer for my own 282 (already have Fraim). Whilst I'm aware some people on this forum don't like the SCDR with the 282, the wider consensus seems to suggest that its a big upgrade. I hope so... In any event I will soon see for myself.

Fraim 

Personally, I don't hear much difference between a quality rack like a Quadraspire Q4 and a Naim Fraim, my dealer sells both, so for the difference in price, I would opt for the SCDR and the Quadraspire rack and get the best of both worlds.

In other words, why just go for one or the other when you can have a quality rack at a fraction of the price and also be able to purchase the SCDR, which personally, I think makes much better sense that the Fraim.

And yes, I have compared the Fraim to other racks, I just don't hear it!

Thanks all for the advise, as said I was still leaning towards Fraim but wanted to verify that in general people didn't think I would be missing a massive upgrade instead with a SCDR.  As mentioned above the cost is the thing that has made me wait for so long to make the switch (if you think its expensive in the UK, the list in Canada is even a good amount higher then our current 1.7 exchange rate).  Being in Canada, they rarely come up second hand & if they do they are never in the colour combo I want.  I did manage to score a double pack of mint condition FraimLite from a dealer in the UK which helped lower the blow slightly.  So now I just need full Fraim base & two additional levels (going to put the RP6 on a Rega wall mount).

I don't have any plans in the near future to swap to the 252 & while I haven't heard the 252 from what I have read it sounds like the 552 would be more suited to my taste (which won't likely be happening anytime soon).  I could see where years down the road a 252 might be an option for me but not with my current taste.

Surely 

sell the 282

and get an ex dem / SH 252 possibly DR'd

lyndon

daren_p posted:

Thanks all for the advise, as said I was still leaning towards Fraim but wanted to verify that in general people didn't think I would be missing a massive upgrade instead with a SCDR.  As mentioned above the cost is the thing that has made me wait for so long to make the switch (if you think its expensive in the UK, the list in Canada is even a good amount higher then our current 1.7 exchange rate).  Being in Canada, they rarely come up second hand & if they do they are never in the colour combo I want.  I did manage to score a double pack of mint condition FraimLite from a dealer in the UK which helped lower the blow slightly.  So now I just need full Fraim base & two additional levels (going to put the RP6 on a Rega wall mount).

I don't have any plans in the near future to swap to the 252 & while I haven't heard the 252 from what I have read it sounds like the 552 would be more suited to my taste (which won't likely be happening anytime soon).  I could see where years down the road a 252 might be an option for me but not with my current taste.

 

Don't believe everything you read on here and certainly let your ears make those VFM judgements and buying decisions whenever possible, rather than the views of people you have never met. Although, I would accept that it would be difficult to hear a demonstration of the benefits of a Fraim, particularly in Canada, and that is when forum advice can be helpful.

A 552 would be more suited to my taste (as a 252 owner) but I can't afford one so it is out of the question.

Good luck and it sounds like you are on the right path IMO.

Do dealers not do demos or home auditions of Fraim, and if not why not? It is an expensive thing  to buy 'on spec', and in particular it would be propriate when trying to decide between that and electronics.

Fraim vs SCDR, 

Well, I don't have any hands on experience, but the way I see it, Something must support the Black Boxes.

So they go Hand in Hand!

So, what we really have here is!

282 vs 252, not again! LOL....

But if I must, the gentleman, that sold me on the 282, his argument went (something) like:

I've had it all, waist of time, and hard cold cash. If, I had to do it all over again, I'd grab the first 282 that came along & hitch it to a SC, then wait for a sweetheart of a deal on a 552.

Now that 282, she won't resolve everything, but the difference would be so subtle, 99% of the Audiophiles in your State, couldn't tell the difference!

Well, it went something like that! LOL.....

Allante93!

Daren, your Naim kit is quite good (I know as I have the same amps). If I were you I would go with a good support which is the Fraim. It is the best support designed for Naim components. If you are currently using a home-made rack, I would expect a rather appreciable difference going from that to the Naim Fraim (or any other good racks). The components do benefit from a proper rack especially if one is currently using a normal piece of furniture, DIY or Ikea types.

Personally, I would Fraim first, for practical reasons.

Nick

Allante93 posted:

Fraim vs SCDR, 

Well, I don't have any hands on experience, but the way I see it, Something must support the Black Boxes.

So they go Hand in Hand!

So, what we really have here is!

282 vs 252, not again! LOL....

But if I must, the gentleman, that sold me on the 282, his argument went (something) like:

I've had it all, waist of time, and hard cold cash. If, I had to do it all over again, I'd grab the first 282 that came along & hitch it to a SC, then wait for a sweetheart of a deal on a 552.

Now that 282, she won't resolve everything, but the difference would be so subtle, 99% of the Audiophiles in your State, couldn't tell the difference!

Well, it went something like that! LOL.....

Allante93!

 

I think MDS also supported the notion of the gentleman who sold you the 282. Although I don't have the Supercap DR, the 282/HCDR sounds perfectly fine for me. Certainly high quality.

Okay, where did all this talk about swapping to a 252 come from 

The dealer that has the SCDR actually has a couple mint 252's but I have no desire to try one out/make that swap currently.  I agree that you can't make your decision based on what people on the forums say but I find if you read though enough info you can generally get a pretty good idea of what changes different pieces of gear will bring/synergy/etc.  But yes, in most cases a home demo is always the best route to take.

As to the home demo of Fraim, not so sure that is something I could do.  My reg dealer that carries Naim (& doesn't have a problem lending me gear for home demo) doesn't have any full fraim on display (just FraimLite as full Fraim isn't so easy to work with when your constantly swapping gear like they are) so not able to demo.  Could possibly get a home demo from another dealer but I'm not going to ask for a home demo & then buy it elsewhere as that doesn't seem right to me.

So far, all of my Naim upgrades have been "blind" (couple pieces I had heard first but not in my own setup) & I must have lucked out as I haven't regretted any of the purchases so far (& no longer have the constant urge to upgrade).  My DIY rack is much better then your typical furniture or Ikea grade stuff, but I'm sure the Fraim will still give far better isolation. 

daren_p posted:

Okay, where did all this talk about swapping to a 252 come from ..................

As to the home demo of Fraim, not so sure that is something I could do.  My reg dealer that carries Naim (& doesn't have a problem lending me gear for home demo) doesn't have any full fraim on display (just FraimLite as full Fraim isn't so easy to work with when your constantly swapping gear like they are) so not able to demo.  Could possibly get a home demo from another dealer but I'm not going to ask for a home demo & then buy it elsewhere as that doesn't seem right to me............

My DIY rack is much better then your typical furniture or Ikea grade stuff, but I'm sure the Fraim will still give far better isolation. 

My Bad Daren, just read the Title, But I wasn't that far off!

You do need Both, and hard cold cash, does play a role in your decision.

Now that you've shared some additional info.

Call up your regular dealer, you have a relationship with him, and probably, value his judgement.

1st off, Fraimlite, can't be that bad, it's interchangeable with Naim's Reference Fraim.

Plus your regular Dealer uses it, and that's his Livelihood!

If the color is to your liking, make a deal with your regular dealer for his Fraimlite, if not, just order brand new Fraimlite, and add Naim Cup & Balls as you Please. 

You can get the Glass spec out at your local Glass Dealer.

Ok, you've just saved some of that hard cold cash! It appears you can resist the mature more refined sound of the 252, and wait on an pre-loved 552 in 2024!

Exchange your HCDR for the SCDR, no Hands on experience, but it's a reason the Engineers implemented the dual inputs on the rear of the 282!

And I regret, the Forum sold me on the HCDR!

Cdx2>282>HCDR>3x250.2>Fraimlite>Briks

And yes, the Fraimlite was a noticeable difference! And that was upgrading from my Tripod Sound Factory Racks! 

The above was also done in the Blind.

You can thank me later, now get busy!

Enjoy your Music, the Why!

The How will do just fine!

Allante93!

PS. Phoebe Snow-No Regrets 

The SCDR is inevitable, in my situation.

Active Fan!

NickSeattle posted:

Personally, I would Fraim first, for practical reasons.

Nick

Me too. There will be other supercaps. 

If you get the Supercap and don't like it, it could be because it isn't on Fraim 

I love the phrase "cease the moment"!

I think I will try to use this in future. Can't work out exactly where, of course.

I'm not sure whether Allante's misspelling of sieze, or whether your where should when is confusing me more.