272 lacking sparkle

How old is the 200. How about system setup, is it on a rack ? what is the mains setup etc ??

Well can you borrow a XPS?  I've heard the 272 on its own and with XPS and 555 and I wouldn't have said it lacked sparkle.  In my opinion not as dynamic as a NDX or CDX2 but all the same a very engaging listen.

Regards,

Lindsay

When you mentioned you did not have problems with the Supernait, Nait XS and Nait 5i, do you mean all these amps possess the sparkle in the treble that is missing with the 272?

ryder. posted:

When you mentioned you did not have problems with the Supernait, Nait XS and Nait 5i, do you mean all these amps possess the sparkle in the treble that is missing with the 272?

Give it a little time, it will come on song, if not check with your Dealer!

Allante93!

PS: 552>252>282> The 4 Box Wonder!

250 DR will not add much sparkle to the treble when compared to 200. The improvements with 250 DR are mainly in refinement and detail with everything sounding more real. Sound of percussion will have the decay that's missing with the 200 and the tone of percussion and thwack of drums etc. sound more like the real thing. The other improvement with the 250 DR is in bass definition, a rather tangible difference when compared to the 200 as bass is significantly boosted with lovely definition and texture. The 200 sounded almost one-dimensional in the bass, a one-note bass in comparison to the layered bass of the 250 DR.

Apologies I got carried away. In summary, the 250 DR gives a lot more but it may not be what you are looking for.

Allante93 posted:

Give it a little time, it will come on song, if not check with your Dealer!

Allante93!

PS: 552>252>282> The 4 Box Wonder!

Yes, good advice.

The supernait was very detailed and had sparkle, thinking back the naits were used with B&W's so very sparkly with metal domes.

Don't get me wrong it's an enjoyable sound i'm getting,  just would like that hi frequency sparkle I've heard in other systems.

Could be my hearing losing that range in the frequency spectrum.

The Nap 200 is 3 years of age and purchased new, also used with SBL's. System is on a level target 5 tier rack plugged direct into 13 amp MK unswitched sockets. System has been left powered for 48 hours since the 272's arrival.

I wondered if the treble sound was inherent in the 172 and 272 pre/streamers.

Mine never sounded dull ........... try borrowing another amp from the dealer....I used mine with and without psu (555ps) ..... the external psu did improve treble and it had good extension. I have now changed my 272 to an NDS and got a 552 pre amp ........... this really does sparkle and it shows up the 272 as lacking ......... but then you would kind of expect that.... I suggest you have a conversation with your friendly dealer.

That explains it. The Supernait was used with B&Ws, the 272 with the Harbeth P3ESR. The Harbeth is not as sparkly as the B&Ws as the treble sounds smoother/softer, though more natural.

It could be that (like me) you got used to metal dome tweeters. 

Some people can be quite vociferous about their dislike of metal domes but they are my preference.

I know when I tried to listen to the revised version of Momentum 3i s, the change of tweeter type did not work for me.

I would describe the 272/250DR/S400 with TQB 'speaker cable as appropriately 'sparkly'. Cymbals nice and brassy, triangles steely and so forth.

G

ryder. posted:

That explains it. The Supernait was used with B&Ws, the 272 with the Harbeth P3ESR. The Harbeth is not as sparkly as the B&Ws as the treble sounds smoother/softer, though more natural.

+1 

I also wondered about the speakers. I listened to Harbeth on two different occasions when I was in the market for speakers. I felt that the Harbeth sound was somewhat dull -- in other words, it lacked sparkle. I went for PMC. Maybe try these? 

From the description the step change in sparkliness was swapping out the B&Ws, though unclear what else may have changed at same time? (If tgat was when the 172 was introduced then it could be that, otherwise it does rather seem to point towards the speakers, which seems to fit with others' experiences so far mentioned re metal domes, so to get a sparkle that might be the change needed. (Or a fizzy drink, which might leave the music more natural?!)

Ears of course do deteriorate at the treble end with age, usually rolling off gradually until eventually you don't need tweeters at all -or you need treble boost so much that anyone younger in the house can't enter the room. The extent and rate of deterioration varies considerably between individuals, but if you are in your second half century it is a possibility, but easily checked at least crudely, e.g by a trip to a dealer with sparkly speakers, or with a phone app and headphones, etc

Eghh ....yer what������???

Plenty of sparkle here with my 272/250DR, TQB and Revels. 

My 272/100/Proac Tab 10 is full of spark, its that good I'm tempted to postpone the next upgrade - The XPSdr

No special stands just a cheap IKEA cabinet, NACA5 speaker cable along with the standard mains wires Naim throw in the box.

Can anyone define what sparkle actually is, in musical terms?

Klyde posted:

Can anyone define what sparkle actually is, in musical terms?

Not sure, but I believe you can buy it from Marks & Spencer together with "Magic"

 Other Department stores are available.

Got a 272/250dr on home demo, sounds great to me no loss of top end. Seriously thinking of pulling the trigger on this pair. 

I reckon it's the power amp. I had a 200 once and it wasn't the brightest thing. The 250dr will offer better grip of the speakers and will separate things (inky blackness?) which will allow the treble to shine.

Of course I might just be talking bollox though.

Klyde posted:

Can anyone define what sparkle actually is, in musical terms?

Recalling the toothpaste advert of a few decades ago, where someone smiles and the light carches a tooth and a white star appears, an expands briefly then collapses and disappears, I assume its the musical equivalent of that, with high frequencies like, say, the strike of cymbals bright flash of sound. 

But I'm probably wrong...

Innocent Bystander posted:

Klyde posted:

Can anyone define what sparkle actually is, in musical terms?

Recalling the toothpaste advert of a few decades ago, where someone smiles and the light carches a tooth and a white star appears, an expands briefly then collapses and disappears, I assume its the musical equivalent of that, with high frequencies like, say, the strike of cymbals bright flash of sound. 

But I'm probably wrong...

There was also a shampoo version of that. I would only use the shampoo version to describe silkyness of tweeters though.

maze posted:

 

Have also owned Supernait, no problems and nait XS and Nait 5i in the past, all no issues here.

 

So why have you moved to the 272? Just because everybody's talking about it on this forum since a year or so? I own a SuperNait1, but if Jesus himself wrote that he has moved to 272/250DR I wouldn't do the move myself because of that. 

Sorry, no intention to be polemic, but if I had 50 €cent for each time the 272/250DR has been mentioned on this forum, I'd buy Naim from Focal.

M

Max_B posted:

maze posted:

 

Have also owned Supernait, no problems and nait XS and Nait 5i in the past, all no issues here.

 

So why have you moved to the 272? Just because everybody's talking about it on this forum since a year or so? I own a SuperNait1, but if Jesus himself wrote that he has moved to 272/250DR I wouldn't do the move myself because of that. 

Sorry, no intention to be polemic, but if I had 50 €cent for each time the 272/250DR has been mentioned on this forum, I'd buy Naim from Focal.

M

Max, with all due respect, you've swapped more Naim boxes in and out and in again than Jesus himself said parables. It's a bit rich from someone who has up, down and side - graded so frequently to a baffling degree to be questioning someone else's motive. 

.sjb

Klyde posted:

Can anyone define what sparkle actually is, in musical terms?

Few things for me but the one that stands out is hairs stand up on the back of my neck when the tune hits the spot. Right now my system sounds superb, delivers music with a live drive that I have not experienced before for some reason the 272/100 and Proac Tablettes gel in a way I cannot describe.

Okay not everyone's cup of tea but I listened to Radiohead Glastonbury's performance Via my telly in HD fed into the 272, wow i was there, in fact I will be going to Manchester on Tuesday to see them live cannot wait