272 lacking sparkle

You could try dumping some of this on your 272...

And it is well known that with Naim green sounds much better than any other color. Red gives an unnatural boost in the 1,000 Hz region, and blue, well let's not even talk about how blue sounds.

But your 272 will most assuredly sparkle!

(Sorry...I couldn't help myself... )

Some spray glue on the tweeter cones and blow some of the glitter towards them, and they'd sparkle too!

(I wouldn't like to guess re the effect on the sound, but I suspect sparkle is unlikely to be the first word that would come into your head...)

As you go up the Naim line the components become more sensitive to set-up. What might have sounded good with a SN2 or 172 may not work with higher-end Naim source/pre.   Start by sorting out all your cables. Make your best effort to keep them from touching each other.  Isolate cables from the floor and separate power cables from interconnects.  Replace wall-wart switchmode power supplies with linear equivalents and if you're not using Fraim this might be a good time to invest.  

Make friends with a good dealer or a Naim veteran who has already made all of the mistakes.  Your system will shine and sparkle. 

Max_B posted:

maze posted:

 

Have also owned Supernait, no problems and nait XS and Nait 5i in the past, all no issues here.

 

So why have you moved to the 272? Just because everybody's talking about it on this forum since a year or so? I own a SuperNait1, but if Jesus himself wrote that he has moved to 272/250DR I wouldn't do the move myself because of that. 

Sorry, no intention to be polemic, but if I had 50 €cent for each time the 272/250DR has been mentioned on this forum, I'd buy Naim from Focal.

M

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

If it was priced 7000£ nobody would have talked about it 

Herberts are nice and smooth, like a laid back jazz quartet, they are not rock and roll in my hubble opinion

Max_B posted:

maze posted:

 

Have also owned Supernait, no problems and nait XS and Nait 5i in the past, all no issues here.

 

So why have you moved to the 272? Just because everybody's talking about it on this forum since a year or so? I own a SuperNait1, but if Jesus himself wrote that he has moved to 272/250DR I wouldn't do the move myself because of that. 

Sorry, no intention to be polemic, but if I had 50 €cent for each time the 272/250DR has been mentioned on this forum, I'd buy Naim from Focal.

M

Max, your post made me laugh.. the 272/252DR is the new Hugo in VFM voguishness  .. I guess at least many are talking Naim product on a Naim forum now.. perhaps next year it might all shift to one of the new Unitis assuming they are launched by then....

Simon

272 is not an amplifier, it is a preamp.

and 200 does not lack sparkle.

Something seems wrong in your setup, I would check the polarity connection to the speaker and also check that the ground switch is set on Chassis, if no other NAIM CD player is connected to your 272. Otherwise if there is a NAIM cd player it should be set on floating, this is in the manual for the 272, please read it.

Metal Dome B&W speakers will always sound different to Harbeth.

Have to say though, I do wonder about a company - Harbeth - that says "all amps sound the same".

compare that to Dynaudio, in which they say, "our speakers will always tell the truth", and one can easily hear a change of cable.

It is a bit of a lazy thread, you are asking for a solution, when you have already stated the speakers were changed.

Sometimes the solutions are already there right in front of you, but one chooses to deny the obvious.

Maze, have you tried moving the Harbeth P3s around the room? In my experience with the Super HL5 Plus, speaker placement can greatly affect the way they sound. If you move the speakers closer to each other you will get a punchier and dynamic sound as the overall image gets denser. The treble may gain a little immediacy and extension when the speakers are closer to each other. The speakers will sound airier and more expansive when they are placed further away from each other. However, there will be a reduction in punch and dynamics with the treble sounding slightly duller. If you hadn't tried placing the P3s closer together, it might be worth a try.

After much experimentation with the placement of the Harbeth Super HL5 Plus, these are the ideal dimensions I have got. Dimensions in millimetres.  Notice the maximum outer edge distance between speakers at 2350 mm. When the speakers are moved further away from each other say 2400 mm or more, there is a reduction in punch and dynamics with the overall presentation sounding slightly duller.

Sloop John B posted:

Max, with all due respect, you've swapped more Naim boxes in and out and in again than Jesus himself said parables. It's a bit rich from someone who has up, down and side - graded so frequently to a baffling degree to be questioning someone else's motive. 

.sjb

Peut être. On the other hand, I have never bought, swapped, up-, down- or side graded boxes for a product that was the current darling of the forum. I have always and only bought things for a reason – and I appreciate that you are not questioning my motives – and my reasons were sensible when they moved me to a change.

I have much experimented, yes: is it a crime? I now know about Naim more than many other people that have bought just one box because it was the talk of the town here. Like it's the 272 (which I've heard) or the 250DR (which I haven't).

BTW, how many of the 272 would have - before the advent of the new Naim Course - bought and celebrated a preamp with its own big transformer and power supply inside?

Best

Max

*of the 272 owners*

I'm with MAX. 

A much-talked about product  but,outside the forum, where I live, and DO people listen with their own ears, no one has fallen into the 272 trap believing it could 'sparkle' as much as the separates.

Not bad in itself but a really compromised design when a separate Naim source comes into place.

Statements like ' as good as ...at half the price' are pure no-sense. Tipically uttered from people who listen to opinions prompted by the possibility to match the best possible power amp and PSU as others say: now it's possible. Do not worry No mismatch on the horizon!

The new hype being : Better preamps are the past, sources are pricer and useless as you could save half the price , demo it with our F***l crop and you're done!

Emre posted:

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

 

No you don't.

Max_B posted:

BTW, how many of the 272 would have - before the advent of the new Naim Course - bought and celebrated a preamp with its own big transformer and power supply inside?

Best

Max

What's the problem there...

There's also been a change of technology - the 272 uses balanced +/- power supplies which give it much better PSRR (by orders of magnitude) and less susceptibility to internal EMI.

An internal PSU would have been inappropriate for the earlier pre-amp designs, but not so now.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Emre posted:

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

 

No you don't.

Surely that depends on the measure of 'almost', and whether the answer is 'yes' or 'no' depends very much the rest of the system, and indeed on the listener's ears/brain...

I really think there is a synergy between the 272/250dr which just sounds right and balanced. Seems so with the 300 also from others experience (I also heard this at my dealers). Virtually all the bass issues I had in my room have gone. 

I have demoed a lot of kit over the last 12 months and this pair easily outgun SN2 with my ndac,  202/200dr and comparing cd5xs plus ndac into analogue input of 272 I can hear little if any difference. Therefore to beat this pair I would have to keep my current source, add a 282/Hicap dr and at least a 200 which would cost me considerably more (factor in trade in) 

Having said that I may demo 282/200dr as a comparison before I make a final decision. I recognise that my speakers may be limiting my ability to discern some differences but I, like most,  have a budget (unfortunately)!! 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Emre posted:

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

 

No you don't.

I bought NDX/282 because I preferred it (bare, with 200DR) to 272/250DR by a large margin. Adding an XPS to the 272 brings the systems close in terms of both cost and SQ, but NDX/282/200DR still won for me. 

In this respect, I find the Naim pricelist to be a pretty accurate measure of relative sound quality.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Emre posted:

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

 

No you don't.

Jon Green of Naim...

Asked where the NAC-N 272 sits in the Naim preamp hierarchy, he explained that
‘the model number should indicate where it’s positioned, but with the addition of an external PSU it’s seriously good.’

See
https://www.naimaudio.com/site...im%20NAC-N%20272.pdf

Huge posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Emre posted:

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

 

No you don't.

Jon Green of Naim...

Asked where the NAC-N 272 sits in the Naim preamp hierarchy, he explained that
‘the model number should indicate where it’s positioned.....

So better than a 252, and almost as good as a 282?! 

Innocent Bystander posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Emre posted:

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

 

No you don't.

Surely that depends on the measure of 'almost', and whether the answer is 'yes' or 'no' depends very much the rest of the system, and indeed on the listener's ears/brain...

Well yes but being Friday I just thought one absolute statement should be rebutted by another!

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Emre posted:

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

 

No you don't.

Surely that depends on the measure of 'almost', and whether the answer is 'yes' or 'no' depends very much the rest of the system, and indeed on the listener's ears/brain...

Well yes but being Friday I just thought one absolute statement should be rebutted by another!

Oh no it shouldn't!

ChrisSU posted:

Huge posted:

Jon Green of Naim...

Asked where the NAC-N 272 sits in the Naim preamp hierarchy, he explained that
‘the model number should indicate where it’s positioned.....

So better than a 252, and almost as good as a 282?! 

If you don't like the 252 but do like the 282, then possibly so!

(Or maybe he thought it was slightly better than a 282, and a small step on the way to the quality of a 252!  - but I don't think he actually meant that!)

If we compare similar priced packages

Option 1 - 272/555/300 list price 16,700£

Option 2 - 282/hicap/250/xps/ndx/hiline  17,450£

Option 3 272/xps/250 10,000£

Which one sounds better ? Which one you will buy? Which one is a good value for money?

I am leaving the extra fraim  cost aside..... I opted for option one and very happy about it but did not compare with option 2 or 3, they might be better souding  options 

They all good

 Good point Chris

Anyway ...172xs being XS series, not as good as 152XS as a preamp, with very basic streaming.

makes 272 entrance in classic series ,the equation shows it behind 202. Streaming side a simplified NDX, not as good as any separate streaming product.

And naim price list,unless they're benefactors, they aren't (somebody could even believe that) would exactly suggest that.

Applying numeric sequencing from the XS series to estimate the quality of the Classic series components makes no sense at all!

And the price is based as much on development & production cost and on perceived market position rather than specifically on perceived sound quality.

ChrisSU posted:

Huge posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Emre posted:

Because it is a good product.

You get a 282/Ndx quality - almost - with a price of one and save on the interconnect and a potential power supply. not bad.. 

 

No you don't.

Jon Green of Naim...

Asked where the NAC-N 272 sits in the Naim preamp hierarchy, he explained that
‘the model number should indicate where it’s positioned.....

So better than a 252, and almost as good as a 282?! 

I think he means that it's either 1 or 100 better than the NAC-N172...