Canada - 150 years (or 15,000 years ?)

Posted by: Don Atkinson on 30 June 2017

Ok, 1st July 2017 and Canada celebrates its 150th "birthday".

A good sized chunk of my immediate family lives in BC and the rest of us are frequent visitors. Another chunk of my great grandfather's family live in Toronto. So we shall all be celebrating.

I appreciate that a fair number of people will have mixed thoughts, given that others have ancestors living in Canada going back c.15,000 years. 

I recently became aware that Highclere Castle (Downton Abbey to most people these days) was the place where much of the Constitution was debated and drafted back in 1866. It's just over the hill from where we live. Neat little local connection.

Best wishes to you all !

Cheers

Don

PS Mogul, We shall next be over mid-August to mid September

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by The Strat (Fender)

Indeed - congratulations to my Canadian relatives.   

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by Paper Plane

One of my favourite countries but aspects of the nation's history make me uncomfortable. Especially as it was Britain's fault in the main.

steve

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by Don Atkinson
Paper Plane posted:

One of my favourite countries but aspects of the nation's history make me uncomfortable. Especially as it was Britain's fault in the main.

steve

Much the same can be said about the USA and much of South America as well.

But it was Europe in general, although mainly the UK, France and Spain in particular.

But human migration has been an on-going feature ever since we (or, let's say the Neanderthals) left Sub-Saharan Africa. Probably.

Anyway, 30m Canadians, 300m Americans and XXXm South Americans all of European or African descent are not going to be returning to Europe or Africa anytime soon. And I don't see anything different occurring in New Zealand or Australia, or the Chinese honouring the agreement regarding Hong Kong, or,or,or........

But I agree, it sometimes makes me feel uncomfortable.

Posted on: 01 July 2017 by ynwa250505
Paper Plane posted:

One of my favourite countries but aspects of the nation's history make me uncomfortable. Especially as it was Britain's fault in the main.

steve

What makes you uncomfortable and why is it Britain's fault?

Posted on: 03 July 2017 by Paper Plane

How abut centuries of colonial oppression, treating the indigenous peoples as second class citizens (or worse), inflicting Christianity on them when they had religions of their own and punishing them for not following it? Insisting they spoke English and, again, punishment for not using it, forcibly removing children from their natural parents and putting them into institutions where they were abused both physically and sexually. Reducing rations to starvation levels to save Government funds. All of these actions can be laid at the feet of the British and, to a certain extent, French also, authorities.

That makes me uncomfortable. You?

steve

Posted on: 03 July 2017 by Kevin-W
Paper Plane posted:

That makes me uncomfortable. You?

steve

I don't feel uncomofortable about it, because while the things you describe happened, it is nothing to do with me, or with any Briton living today. We are not responsible for it, nor were our parents or grandparents and feeling guilty about it achieves nothing.

And if you feel guilty about the past - which, as LP Hartley said, is another country - and expect other Brits to do so, then surely you must also hold the French, Dutch, Spanish, Arabs, Turks, Portuguese, Belgians, Italians, Greeks, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, etc etc to a similar account. I suspect that they would generally feel the same. The sins of the past cannot be undone and those responsible for the misdeeds you describe have been dead centuries.

The most important thing now is that Canada continues as a liberal democracy that treats its original inhabitants, American Indians and Inuit, with dignity and respect and ensures that they share in the country's wealth and prosperity; they don't always, of course, but that is the fault of the current administration, not the British or French.

Posted on: 03 July 2017 by Timmo1341
Kevin-W posted:
Paper Plane posted:

That makes me uncomfortable. You?

steve

I don't feel uncomofortable about it, because while the things you describe happened, it is nothing to do with me, or with any Briton living today. We are not responsible for it, nor were our parents or grandparents and feeling guilty about it achieves nothing.

And if you feel guilty about the past - which, as LP Hartley said, is another country - and expect other Brits to do so, then surely you must also hold the French, Dutch, Spanish, Arabs, Turks, Portuguese, Belgians, Italians, Greeks, Germans, Japanese, Chinese, etc etc. I suspect that they would generally feel the same. The sins of the past cannot be undone and those responsible for the misdeeds you describe have been dead centuries.

The most important thing now is that Canada continues as a liberal democracy that treats its original inhabitants, American Indians and Inuit, with dignity and respect and ensures that they share in the country's wealth and prosperity; they don't always, of course, but that is the fault of the current administration, not the British or French.

Well said. Too many bleeding heart liberals delight in wearing hair shirts over events long past. They should spend more time apologising for the outrages committed by their leaders, in their name, in the present day.

Tim