SU & Kudos Super 20's?

IIRC ALAN33 uses a SU with S10s in his system. so a very similar sonic signature I'd imagine.

Being an SuperUniti owner myself I can highly recommend one, its a gem of an amp/streamer. I've had great success with mine and ProAc SM100's which are again, IMHO, brilliant and make a formidable combination.... I have them wired up with EWA LS-25 speaker cables and the SU is feed from a QNAP TS-251+ NAS with 8GB RAM and 2x1TB Sandisk Ultra II SSDs. All controlled via iPad/iPhone.

IMHO You'll not go wrong with either S10/S20 or SM100s. OBVS the SM100s and S10s would need stands as opposed to the S20s being floorstanders.. but there's lots to choose from, I use the Atacama HMS2.1 stands.. But would also consider something like Custom Design 404 bespoke build. both fully mass loaded.

PS, there a dealer selling a BNIN SU on a 'another' forum (PFM) ATM for £2000. the SM100s can be bought from proaudioeurope for £1600 with a big of haggling. the LS-25 3.5m speaker are £575. = best sound per pound you can buy IMHO.   

I wonder if the S20's may be too much speaker for a Superuniti, creating a bit of a mullet.  The S20's are excellent speakers (I have a pair myself) but they are very revealing and certainly not polite!

I've heard a Superuniti with PMC 20/23's and whilst nice it didn't have that star quality that high end audio gives you, I don't see that pairing a better speaker with a Superuniti will address this, good as it is.

I'm wondering if you would be better off going down the 272/200 route, using a combination of new/used.  There are a few ex dem 272's around at the moment and a decent NAP200 is easy to find almost all of the time.  You could then pair this with some used Kudos C20's which give 80% of what the S20's give (I had C20's before S20's) and have a better balanced system.  The C20's seem to be overlooked, but are really good and used prices are very keen.

Richard

Hi - yes Spacey recalls correctly: I have an SU and Kudos S10's on sand-filled 3-pillar metal stands. Sources are flac from NAS, Tidal, internet radio, and video (tv cable box and/or Mac mini, both via TosLink).

I really like the sound even though I have a few negative elements in that my main floor open concept room is really huge and the lack of art work or bookshelves makes for a bright and echo-y room. That said, with anything above very quiet volumes, I find the sound to be very balanced and clear and fun to listen to; it isn't at all bass heavy (or particularly bass light, although it was when I tried it with a UnitiQute). Moving the speakers around, and especially moving them out from the back wall by quite a way made a difference to the balance. The clarity and detail sometimes really catches my ear but mostly I am just listening to music or watching television rather than being in "audio critic" mode. I've tried a couple of more up-market speaker cables (I have Atlas Hyper and tried Tara Labs something) and there was a noticeable improvement in clarity / insight / bass, but have not yet pulled the trigger as it is way more than I've spent on a wire ever before...

My own plan is to move to the new Uniti line, but not because I'm unhappy or anything like that. 

Give a listen, it's a nice combo and super convenient. 

Regards alan

Paulq,

It'd be interesting to hear if and how your were using the room optimization of the Akurate with the Kudos and/or the Katans. Seems there's room for experimentation and adjustments there. FWIW, a friend has an Exakt with Majik Isobarics and after using them actively decided going back to passive was a better result.

My experience using a SN2 with both Majik Isobariks and 140s (upgraded plinths) is that Linn speakers are highly musical, you can listen to them all day, but they are laid-back to a degree, and not especially "fast". Maybe this is what you are calling too polite. I've heard the Kudos S20s on a friend's Naim gear (something like a 282/200 though not certain) and found them to be quite fast and with a high frequency edginess in that room. I'm surprised you'd find the Kudos polite, but goes to show it's all room and ear dependent.

I have some Super 20s driven by a 272/250 and they are wonderful, being highly transparent and anything but polite!  

Ironically the S20's are easier to drive than the S10s so shouldn't be an issue....

I'd expect the SU to be something of a step down from the Akurate boxes, given that it's about half the price. The Naim equivalent is the 272/250DR so that could be worth a spin. I'd certainly agree with Richard that S20s on an SU is well into mullet territory, and that the C20s are a very nice and more modest alternative. 

OK thanks folks - lots to consider. Much appreciated.

I would agree that the S20s are too much speaker to hang off the end of a Superuniti. It might be enough to get you up and running, but I think you'd soon be hankering after some better electronics. I think I'd be looking at NDX/Supernait or 272/200 as a minimum.

Now had my S20s 6 months.   Short of moving house to a room with completely different characteristics I'll never change speakers.   Can't think of why they won't work well with a SU a NAP 200 does the job fine. 

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Now had my S20s 6 months.   Short of moving house to a room with completely different characteristics I'll never change speakers.   Can't think of why they won't work well with a SU a NAP 200 does the job fine. 

Regards,

Lindsay

People get hung-up on prices hence the mullet... its actually nothing to do with this. The S20 are an easier load, and use the same drivers as the S10s.... the rest is down to cabinet construction and response. The SU will be perfectly comfortable driving either.

It's not price but capability that is the issue.

A £200 Marantz amplifier fronted by a £200 CD is quite capable of driving S20's, as Spacey rightly says they are easy to drive but it wouldn't be a very good system for £5000.  OK an extreme example but S20's are revealing and very capable speakers.

There are people on here with very high end systems using S20's (top sources, and 552/300 amplification) and my view is that they deserve better than a Superuniti to achieve a long term satisfactory system.

Spending more on the source/amplifier and less on the speakers would be how I would spend my money.

trickydickie posted:

It's not price but capability that is the issue.

Spending more on the source/amplifier and less on the speakers would be how I would spend my money.

Can't see why that needs to be the status quo... if a speaker is good it'll simply let the amp/frontend show what it can or cannot do.

The S10 or S20, are nothing extraordinary, they're simply good speakers. I've heard the C10s and C20s with the SU, which drove them with ease and sounded superb.

Can someone please explain what exactly a mullet is? :-). 

I also think my original description of the S20's I had as 'polite' was wholly inaccurate, on reflection. What I really meant was maybe very revealing and a tad on the bright side. 

I must admit I do slightly regret selling them and the Nord in exchange for a Linn aktiv system now. Maybe one of my options is to go back to a setup like that. It's a pity that I can't run both side by side so I can decide which was actually the better system. 

I guess the benefit of a passive system is that the components are easier to change. 

a Mullet refers to the hair style; where you have too much at one end ie, if you have expensive speakers you MUST have more money in your amps/frontend to balance it all out.

spacey posted:

trickydickie posted:

It's not price but capability that is the issue.

Spending more on the source/amplifier and less on the speakers would be how I would spend my money.

Can't see why that needs to be the status quo... if a speaker is good it'll simply let the amp/frontend show what it can or cannot do.

The S10 or S20, are nothing extraordinary, they're simply good speakers.

It's the cannot do that could be the problem you won't realise or benefit from the true potential of the speakers with lesser amplification.

There isn't any need for a Superuniti as one can also use a Nait 1/2/3 or Nait 5si to drive the Kudos S20 no problem. Music will still sound good though better sound can always be attained by considering better amplification. With Naim, you get more power (larger amps) when moving up the range, and the amps will go hand in hand with the matching pre for optimal control (N272 is superb and all you would ever need!)

If the size of the room is moderate to huge and listening is far-field at moderate to high levels, a larger or higher quality amp will be essential/necessary.

And yes, I support the notion that costly speakers will benefit from better amplification. The Kudos S20 costs £4,250 and the Superuniti is an all-in-one player that only costs £3829. Personally I would consider better amplification for the S20 to  optimise the potential of the speakers. I would not match the Superuniti with speakers costing above £2,000. All my opinion of course.

Sorry but that's another preconception... 

Has anyone actually tried the combo? 

Ryder - of course the S20s will be optimised with better amps but if they are the right speaker for the OPs listening room the SU will be fine. 

Linn Exakt front end with Naim power amps into the S20s, could be the best of both Worlds.

Cymbiosis could demo such a system for you.

trickydickie posted:

It's not price but capability that is the issue.

A £200 Marantz amplifier fronted by a £200 CD is quite capable of driving S20's, as Spacey rightly says they are easy to drive but it wouldn't be a very good system for £5000.  OK an extreme example but S20's are revealing and very capable speakers.

There are people on here with very high end systems using S20's (top sources, and 552/300 amplification) and my view is that they deserve better than a Superuniti to achieve a long term satisfactory system.

Spending more on the source/amplifier and less on the speakers would be how I would spend my money.

Yes, it's about getting a well balanced system for your budget. A Superuniti is perfectly capable of driving S20s to the limit of it's ability. But climbing a step higher on the Naim ladder at this point really does reap big benefits, enough to justify spending less on speakers in my opinion. And yes, that would obviously require more boxes.

sunbeamgls posted:

Linn Exakt front end with Naim power amps into the S20s, could be the best of both Worlds.

Cymbiosis could demo such a system for you.

I'm thinking the along the same lines but with either Naim or Nord amplification. The sale of the A4200 should buy the new variant S20a's.

Adding a Nord amp could see me run the S20's passively for a while and then add in an Akurate 6 channel Exaktbox at a later date.  I think that would just about do it for the next 20 years.

Until I hear a 272/250DR that is....

Paulq posted:

sunbeamgls posted:

Linn Exakt front end with Naim power amps into the S20s, could be the best of both Worlds.

Cymbiosis could demo such a system for you.

I'm thinking the along the same lines but with either Naim or Nord amplification. The sale of the A4200 should buy the new variant S20a's.

Adding a Nord amp could see me run the S20's passively for a while and then add in an Akurate 6 channel Exaktbox at a later date.  I think that would just about do it for the next 20 years.

Until I hear a 272/250DR that is....

You'll find a review on line that compares Akurate Exakt with NDS/555DR, 282/Supercap DR and 250DR both into S20s with one Linnie and one Naimist coming to the same conclusions, in their humble opinions of course  Not sure the 272, good though it is when I've heard it, can live with that.

Paulq posted:

I also think my original description of the S20's I had as 'polite' was wholly inaccurate, on reflection. What I really meant was maybe very revealing and a tad on the bright side. 

While I'd tend to agree with your latter assessment of the S20s, I hope your opinion is not being cowed by responses.