Hifi dinosaur evolving (or is it adapting)

If you don't currently have a CD collection, or at least one of note, then in my opinion a CD player of any description would seem pointless and streaming would be a far more sensible way forward, buying music by download to store locally on a computer, or better still a NAS (dedicated computer storage device on a home network) feeding a 'streamer' such as Naim's ND5XS which sounds even better through an external DAC like Chord Hugo or even Mojo, or N272 which also incorporates a preamp; or, in my view better still, a music store that also includes a renderer (the first stage of converting the file to music) like Naim Uniti Core or Melco N1A feeding a DAC such as Hugo, Mojo or Naim N-DAC.  With Uniti Core, or any computer, you can 'rip' CDs to extract music files onto your store, whether from an existing collection or future purchases.

SOme people like online streaming where, instead of bypuying music and having it on your own store, you suvpbscribe to a service where you listen at will but don't own (e.g Tida, Qobuz)

Much on all of these on this forum for you to browse and consider initially!

Simon C posted:

After a decade without a hifi system of any distinction, the sale of my weekend plaything allowed me to justify, to myself, the need to get some decent music in my life.

I crawled into the loft, turned the box marked "LP12" up the right way and dusted it off. As it hadn't been used for ten years it was bound to be ok and, sure enough, plugging the deck into the lingo 1 and the lingo 1 into the wall resulted in the platter dustily spinnning at what looked like the right sort of rate. Fantastic!

Being prudent I took it into dealer to check needle,  bounce, oil etc. Poof goes the lingo. Sigh!

Anyway, long story short  I now have an upgraded LP12, NAC252, NAP300dr, some Martin Logans' and no more money. A familiar end result I'm sure.

Bearing in mind I've never owned a dedicated CD player, all this NDS/NDX/server/streamer/spdif/ is just slightly this side of gobbledegook. But that's ok coz I can't afford any of them.

Sod's law recently showed up under the guise of my Blu-ray player staring to make strange noises so that's going to need replacing.

Finally to the point of the post:   I reckon, after a lot of desktop research, that if I popped for an Oppo UDP205 that I'd get a blu-ray player, CD player, SACD player, hi-res USB music player, and steamer (for vegetables?) that I could connect a NAS drive to once I'd figured out what that entails. This I could connect to the 252 which would then give me access to half reasonable digital sources. Does this sound resonable? Anything (very) wrong with my thinking?

I know it won't be in the same quality realm as Naim's dedicated boxes but they will have to wait 'till E.R.N.I.E. comes up trumps for me.

If this is a sensible route forward I'll need some advice on NASs next.

Thank you

simon

i guess you have chosen the oppo because it is in the price range you wanted and also because you wanted to have blue ray possibility.  There is not a lot of universal digital players in this price range , quite very very few. After you have esoteric and accuphase, but much more expensive...  So your choice is comprehensive i think. Perhaps after you will have the possibility to add a better dac or a streaming bridge like auralnic.

Another choice would be to buy a cheap blue ray player and a streamer/ dac/nas for around 2000GBP like lumin m1, sony z1....The entry level naim cd5xs is twice the price of the oppo.

For myself, with the high end naim amps you have, i would go to the used market in order to have a source in the league of your electronics.  A used cdx2 or ndx or esoteric k1 ....for around 2k.

Innocent Bystander posted:

If you don't currently have a CD collection, or at least one of note, then in my opinion a CD player of any description would seem pointless and streaming would be a far more sensible way forward, buying music by download to store locally on a computer, or better still a NAS (dedicated computer storage device on a home network) feeding a 'streamer' such as Naim's ND5XS which sounds even better through an external DAC like Chord Hugo or even Mojo, or N272 which also incorporates a preamp; or, in my view better still, a music store that also includes a renderer (the first stage of converting the file to music) like Naim Uniti Core or Melco N1A feeding a DAC such as Hugo, Mojo or Naim N-DAC.  With Uniti Core, or any computer, you can 'rip' CDs to extract music files onto your store, whether from an existing collection or future purchases.

SOme people like online streaming where, instead of bypuying music and having it on your own store, you suvpbscribe to a service where you listen at will but don't own (e.g Tida, Qobuz)

Much on all of these on this forum for you to browse and consider initially!

I must agree with the above sold my CD player last year everything is  streamed and since not having a CD player I've bought more CDs than ever before probably 6 in the last fortnight another 4 should pop through the letter box latter this week so cheap second hand and such a selection.

I live in Keynsham which is only a stone's throw from Bath your welcome to pop over and see what streaming entails it might give you some guidance. 

Pcd posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

If you don't currently have a CD collection, or at least one of note, then in my opinion a CD player of any description would seem pointless and streaming would be a far more sensible way forward, buying music by download to store locally on a computer, or better still a NAS (dedicated computer storage device on a home network) feeding a 'streamer' such as Naim's ND5XS which sounds even better through an external DAC like Chord Hugo or even Mojo, or N272 which also incorporates a preamp; or, in my view better still, a music store that also includes a renderer (the first stage of converting the file to music) like Naim Uniti Core or Melco N1A feeding a DAC such as Hugo, Mojo or Naim N-DAC.  With Uniti Core, or any computer, you can 'rip' CDs to extract music files onto your store, whether from an existing collection or future purchases.

SOme people like online streaming where, instead of bypuying music and having it on your own store, you suvpbscribe to a service where you listen at will but don't own (e.g Tida, Qobuz)

Much on all of these on this forum for you to browse and consider initially!

I must agree with the above sold my CD player last year everything is  streamed and since not having a CD player I've bought more CDs than ever before probably 6 in the last fortnight another 4 should pop through the letter box latter this week so cheap second hand and such a selection.

I live in Keynsham which is only a stone's throw from Bath your welcome to pop over and see what streaming entails it might give you some guidance. 

 

But if you're streaming don't you have to pretty much know what you're looking for in order to play it?

Whereas with a physical collection (CDs or NAS drive), you can browse through by album, artist etc and see all the ones you have, including the ones you'd completely forgotten you had  (at least that's what happens with me).

Nope, streaming is not the way forward IMHO.

(Views expressed in this post may be those of SWMBO and are not necessarily endorsed by the poster)

Are you planning on using the Oppo for AV?

If YES: Its onboard AV decoding is excellent. Owning the 105D I find it to be a surprisingly reasonable audio streamer, and it can be upgraded.

If NO: I think this becomes a more questionable route. It does have a Tidal app, so you can stream from there. But you can get better for less.

Depending on how much of a learning curve you want I would suggest:

Raspberry Pi 3 (£50) running Logitech Media Server;
IFI 5v PSU for above;
SoTM SMS-200 (£500)

You can use this to stream Tidal or Qobuz; Pay a monthly fee but avoid NAS etc.

M

rjstaines posted:

Pcd posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

If you don't currently have a CD collection, or at least one of note, then in my opinion a CD player of any description would seem pointless and streaming would be a far more sensible way forward, buying music by download to store locally on a computer, or better still a NAS (dedicated computer storage device on a home network) feeding a 'streamer' such as Naim's ND5XS which sounds even better through an external DAC like Chord Hugo or even Mojo, or N272 which also incorporates a preamp; or, in my view better still, a music store that also includes a renderer (the first stage of converting the file to music) like Naim Uniti Core or Melco N1A feeding a DAC such as Hugo, Mojo or Naim N-DAC.  With Uniti Core, or any computer, you can 'rip' CDs to extract music files onto your store, whether from an existing collection or future purchases.

SOme people like online streaming where, instead of bypuying music and having it on your own store, you suvpbscribe to a service where you listen at will but don't own (e.g Tida, Qobuz)

Much on all of these on this forum for you to browse and consider initially!

I must agree with the above sold my CD player last year everything is  streamed and since not having a CD player I've bought more CDs than ever before probably 6 in the last fortnight another 4 should pop through the letter box latter this week so cheap second hand and such a selection.

I live in Keynsham which is only a stone's throw from Bath your welcome to pop over and see what streaming entails it might give you some guidance. 

 

But if you're streaming don't you have to pretty much know what you're looking for in order to play it?

Whereas with a physical collection (CDs or NAS drive), you can browse through by album, artist etc and see all the ones you have, including the ones you'd completely forgotten you had  (at least that's what happens with me).

Nope, streaming is not the way forward IMHO.

(Views expressed in this post may be those of SWMBO and are not necessarily endorsed by the poster)

My view, as yet another who abandoned CD players a number of years ago,  is the polar opposite of this.

With a physical CD collection you can browse through your collection by artist or by album, but not both. After all, your physical CDs can only be displayed and stored in one and only one physical order. With a ripped collection on a NAS (a local network  streaming option), you can browse through albums (with cover art readily displayed) in any one of a number of ways.

Streaming from a service such as Qobuz, Tidal or Spotify is a little different, but these services each offer 'discovery' options which can lead one to explore and discover artists and albums that would otherwise never have been found.

A combination of local (NAS) and external (external streaming service) streaming is the best of all worlds, and, in my opinion,  a so much more user friendly and enjoyable experience than playing CDs ever has been. I do not, and never will miss my CD player. If you yearn for the tactile feel of locating and playing physical music albums, then I find that a turntable or reel-to-reel deck offers an infinitely more enjoyable tactile experience.

Streaming for me is most definitely the way forward.

Thanks guys, a good range of ideas, and kind offers.

With my existing blu-ray player likely to fail soon the Oppo will be seeing AV duties primarily. With no funds left at present to get me a digital source that will do justice to the rest of my system I'm left with deciding 'next best option' . The 205's universal playing character gives me  quite a few ways of listening to digitised music.

i don't have a vast CD library. 

Tidal etc don't get me excited yet, though A local streaming option appeals: if I'm not listening to internet radio on my Muso I'm pulling music off the USB stick stuck in the side. Upnp seems like the way to go as the early-Windows-like file structure when searching for music on the USB seems very old school - even for me.

S.

Mr Underhill posted:

...

Depending on how much of a learning curve you want I would suggest:

Raspberry Pi 3 (£50) running Logitech Media Server;
IFI 5v PSU for above;
SoTM SMS-200 (£500)

You can use this to stream Tidal or Qobuz; Pay a monthly fee but avoid NAS etc.

M

Well you don't have to tell me twice. So I searched, using something called Google,  coz I had no clue what Mr. Underhill's (thank you) suggestion was all about. SOtM sMS-200 ? Good grief!

Now I'm better informed. Don't understand it at all yet, but better informed nonetheless.

Thank you everyone. Now I'm going to donate a keyboard to this SOTM company as they clearly have a sticky CAPS bUTtoN.

s.

I'd have a shufti at the Auralic Aries Mini. It looks nice and simple, can stream from a nas and can do Tital and Qobuz. It's under £500. I've never heard one, but I've long thought it looks like a neat solution if a Naim streamer is too pricey. 

Thank you, I'll have a look.

S.

The Oppo is a great machine. Given you need a new blu ray soon, it's a no brainer. 

I too went without a decent hifi for a decade. Three years ago I punted on a 172/200/S400 starter system to get back in the swim. I have a NAS and only stream. Putting aside arguments about which streamer etc, is the best, I found that getting the cd collection ripped and organized, your network sorted and your computer ripping efficient whilst not hard, was tedious. Take some time to get this underway though and explore the goldmine of hd downloads. And dab+ and internet radio/streaming. Musical vistas will expand.

I used to have around 3000 records back in the day. And as a Linn/Naim dealer we sold records and cds. Plus we had two of the best music shops right next to us. But I think I was a musical pygmy compared to now, even though my collection is around the same size.

My little ipad running the much maligned Naim app with a sorted collection is just magical.

So get your Oppo and work on your digital music collection. 

Aural Aries Mini is a nice option, especially as it now integrates with Roon. I use one as a headphone only bedroom system albeit somewhat pimped with a better PS and a Hugo2. It sounds good as a standalone, but I was running through a 552/300 which tends to improve most sources. I also used with an iFi iDSD BL and that sounded quite good as well, this was without upgraded PS. Qobuz and Tidal work well.

I do use a headless Mac Mini with Audirvana for my main system but that costs a little more. I find Audirvana allows better control of the sound than the Auralic OS. Both Minis have the ability to store music locally and access connected HD or NAS devices.

Yep that Auralic Aries Mini does look like a nice device. If a new blu-ray player was not needed it would be an excellent way to get streaming into my system. I like the idea of a local disk.

s.

So your budget is exhausted. Do you have a computer and a router in the house? If so, and if you're prepared to spend time researching and tinkering, you can get a good streamer with DAC for as little as €120. Allo's Boss network audio player comes pre-assembled, for example. You might want to consider which app you are going to use to browse your music collection. Roon is  the best software available today by a long way. It is subscription based (about 100 quid annually) but well worth it (a lifetime subscription is also available). The Auralic Aries Mini cannot run Roon. But your 120€ audiophile streamer can. If you go down this route, after some cursing and swearing, you will be rewarded by a great musical experience which can be easily upgraded with a better DAC or even replaced in future by a Roon ready Naim source.

The problem with ROON is the need for a server to act as the 'Core'.

Typically this means having a PC running all the time, which is either noisy (if a general purpose machine: PC or MAC), not so easy to set up (micro PC / NUC / Raspberry Pi + HiFiBerry), or expensive (Mac mini).  There are other alternatives shown on the ROON website (last part of roonlabs.com/partners.html), but you still need to get one of these; although that can be a good option I have no direct knowledge of these.

The Auralic Aries Mini currently has Roon in public beta (they are a ROON partner), but I'm not sure whether that's as a player or as a Core server, however that also needs a DAC as it's just a streaming node.  The Chord MoJo is suggested if price is important (elsewise a Hugo 2) but do audition the DACs as sound signatures vary between different DACS - and manufacturers other than Chord should also be considered.

Don't be misled by applications that "allow control of the sound", they allow alteration of the digital content allowing you to do things like volume control (matching) and tone controls, but at the cost of some degree of degradation to sound quality.  Applications like Audirvana are marketed at both HiFi use (turn off all processing and ensure bit perfect transmission to the DAC)...   and casual use (e.g. offices and other non-ideal environments) where the damaging effects of lower quality equipment and rubbish speaker placement can be reduced by digitally processing the sound.  For a properly set-up system such additional processing is unnecessary and degrades sound quality - keep to the 'straight through' option.

The Oppo can be a good place to start and a better DAC (e.g. a Chord DAC or other) can be added later to improve the audio quality.  Even though it'll come close, it'll never quite match the audio quality of a dedicated streaming solution though.

A final very pertinent piece of advice, irrespective of any hardware choices...

The advice to start thinking about how you want to select your music is very wise.  So for instance what you want in the 'Artist' field for modern groups and for Classical.  For modern the performer is usually the the person or group you want to identify, whereas for classical you will often want to identify by the composer rather than the orchestra performing the work.

So quite a few ways to get streaming. Lots of different boxes. Different software. And some surprisingly cost effective alternatives.

Thank you everyone. Now I'm off to see what Roon is all about.

s.

Simon C posted:

So quite a few ways to get streaming. Lots of different boxes. Different software. And some surprisingly cost effective alternatives.

Thank you everyone. Now I'm off to see what Roon is all about.

s.

your oppo is the most easy and universal solution: you have cds, sacd, blue ray, usb to memory stick for hirez downloads, all in one box. Stay with that and when you will have funds, you can upgrade with a good dac or add streaming dac .

Some interesting ideas and most I had never come across. However the Oppo 205 does give me a single box solution to which I can add and adapt later.

thank you all.

s.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'd have a shufti at the Auralic Aries Mini. It looks nice and simple, can stream from a nas and can do Tital and Qobuz. It's under £500. I've never heard one, but I've long thought it looks like a neat solution if a Naim streamer is too pricey. 

I have a mini with 2 tera installed and additional psu  operated digital out to dac.  compare with NDX Through same dac, theres very little difference, the app is far better too