MC Cartridge for LP12/Ittok

Push the boat out and buy an audio technica oc9 this is a great cartridge ... I used the oc7 and that is good .... the 9 is superb.

Phil Cork posted:

I....have recently acquired a mid-80's LP12 with Ittok LVII

Phil, I'd get this checked out by a Linn dealer first. I think 'K' boards match Linn MC cartridges specifically. I believe they are a grand and upwards.

Chris

Phil - can you tell us more about the provenance and spec of the LP12 and how well it has been maintained and serviced? e.g.

1- what PS does it have? I assume a Valhalla?  This should be checked if not done recently - and it needs care. Have you done a speed check?
2- has the Ittok been checked vis the bearing?   -  any idea what caused the cantilever to be bent?
3- is the belt tight/loose?
4- is the armboard sitting square in the armboard space and have you checked the suspension and integrity of the springs and grommets? 

I have been down a similar route to this (acquired an elderly LP12 with similar spec) and found initial LP12 ownership to  be a bit of an education, in terms of the LP12 mechanicals and specs, and also the costs of ownership.

If you aren't certain on some of the above (the age & cartridge issue would suggest it hasn't been serviced for some time?), I would (strongly) suggest the cartridge aspect should come post a dealer review of the deck - also recognising that cartridges should not be changed with the arm in situ, so it's far easier to get addressed by a dealer, who can advise on cartridge compatibility aspects. I fear though your budget may be 'tight'.

Denon DL-103 is a favourite of mine and others(Richard D. among...)  and Kuma seems to be very fond of the Audio Technica's AT-F7.

Worth  checking them out.

Another vote for the Denon DL-103. Cracking cartridge for the price.

Willy.

same set up on my LP12 mine has a Dynavector DV10X5 fitted and very happy with it

Tony2011 posted:

Denon DL-103 is a favourite of mine and others(Richard D. among...)  and Kuma seems to be very fond of the Audio Technica's AT-F7.

Worth  checking them out.

Well, I'm not sure I'd recommend a DL-103 on an LP12 and Ittok. 

Certainly the AT MCs seem to work well here, and I find that the AT-OC9 MLII works really well combined with an LP12 and Ittok.

p.s. running a K9 into NA523 boards will totally overload them in which case you will just get a muddy distorted sound.

You could go trad and get a used Troika and have it rebuilt. Van den Hul did mine and I love it or The Cartridge Man will also oblige. It would probably cost circa £100 to buy and  £300-£400 to rebuild but IMHO it's better than most alternatives at that cost.

The 323 'K' boards were designed for the Linn low output MC's - originally the Karma (hence the 'K' designation). I ran both a Linn Asak and an Asaka into mine (lols - not at the same time.....), with an Ittok on an LP12 .

Before that - and since - I have used the Dynavector 10X series, but with 322 'N' boards - and now 522 'N' boards.

No sure but would a Dynavector 20X work into 323 K's...? (believes its low output..)

ianrobertm posted:

...Before that - and since - I have used the Dynavector 10X series, but with 322 'N' boards - and now 522 'N' boards.

No sure but would a Dynavector 20X work into 323 K's...? (believes its low output..)

The Dynavector DV-20XL would be fine into NA323/523 boards, but S type boards seem to be better than K types for the Dynavectors.

 The Dynavector DV20XH should be used with a moving magnet phono stage, so NA322/522 boards would suit here.

Hana EL.

Hi Phil,

personally I would make sure you had a Lingo and Kore before an MC cartridge. A new MM and a second hand Stageline could be a useful short term fix until your LP12 is ready for said MC. Understand if you don't want to start spending money on the deck though, it does get expensive!

Stu

As you have the 323 'K' boards.

Try a retipped Karma or Troika,and after that a recapp Lingo1 from Darren ClassA.

Wow!

Thanks all for your responses so far. I'll try and cover some of the questions:

Happy Listener - it seems to be about as original as they come and was bought new by the guy i bought it from - part of what attracted me to it.  I don't know how to tell what PS it has - nothing off board so i guess i'd need to take a look?  No speed check has been done but it seemed to play one of my old LPs at the right speed.  Don't know how the cantilever got bent - he said his wife 'didn't get on with it' so there may be something there.  The belt seemed to go on ok and doesn't seem especially tight or loose.  The armboard seems to be sitting ok in the space - it was all quite high until loaded by the platter, which seated it down nicely.  Suspension 'therefore' seems ok, but I'm sure there are devils in the detail that i'm not aware of.

Stuart.Ashen - indeed, not keen to start splashing loads of money on it at this stage apart from making it play LPs.  I could get a MM cart and some MM boards for my 52 and be done with that, but as i already had the 523k boards it seemed to make sense to get an MC cart - perhaps not.

Richieroo - have looked at the AT OC9 carts, and they seem like they'll fit the bill, and i could stretch to that figure, but as Christopher_M says, will it be compatible with my 523k boards, or are they really specifically for Linn Carts?

Similar issue for the Denon DL-103 Tony/WIlly? Will it sit nicely with the Phono boards I have?

The Dynavector looks good but ignores the budget slightly ;o)

I was looking at S/H Karma and Troika but it's difficult to know what you'll get, even when people claim that they've been rebuilt....

Perhaps I find some MM boards and a modest MM cart for now? Could hold on to the MC boards for when I'm feeling a little more adventurous!

In any case I'll need to get my local HiFi dealer to do the install, so will seek some advice.

Any further thoughts gratefully received! Thanks,

Phil

Phil, the At OC-9MLII (and presumably the OC-9 MkIII) will work just fine into K boards.  The only difference between the S and K boards is the loading (470 ohms vs 560 ohms respectively) and the top end roll down, which is steeper and earlier on the S compared to the K.

Note that my experience with a couple of AT-OC9 MLIIs is that they really do need around 50 hours on them before they lose a certain edginess.  Just as you're about to throw in the towel and concede that the nay-sayers were right and the OC9 is a bright and edgy nail of a cartridge, it goes through a wonderful metamorphosis and is just fast, detailed and rhythmically adept, with some of the finest retrieval of shallow cuts and inner grooves of any cartridge out there.

Phil - given the above, having been here myself, my 1st stop would be a dealer, if only for an initial consultation and to glean what a realistic budget is re the options you are thinking of, and take things from there.

If you ask nicely, they should be happy to show you the working parts, what's important, and educate you on the key aspects of LP12 set-up (primarily the suspension via the top-plate fitting, integrity of the platter bearing, the springs & grommets, the run of the cables within the plinth, and the infamous 'bounce'). These things really do matter. There are various videos on LP12 set-up, which inform around such matters.

Do you know the rudiments of how to transport the LP12 and have you the dedicated packaging?

IMHO, it should be 'deck first' and talk about the cartridge aspects alongside. Personally, I wouldn't rush to install a cartridge in what could be an 'off-colour' LP12 (i.e. an unserviced one) and run what I would term 'DIY risk' (I think you are now committed to seeking dealer assistance on this?).

I fear though a service could eat most (~£200?)/all of your budget - but it's far easier to get a new cartridge fitted and set-up (aligned etc) within the service regime, rather than risk potential damage to the Ittok's bearings via a DIY job. Please don't interpret this as negative comment on your DIY skills - but arms of such calibre are very expensive, even 2nd hand. The Ittok, assuming it's OK, should be a keeper, as these are great value arms and can handle good quality cartridges. There are some here who like there Ittoks more than later Linn arms.  

Great care with the Valhalla board (99% likely installed I suspect), as the components decay with the years - AFAIK this can discharge on you and (again) is best checked by a dealer. IIRC, there's likely/should be a warning sticker on it. Also, with the Valhalla, the speed of the platter is calibrated by the orientation of the motor i.e. there in no feedback loop (as in the Radikal set-up).

in other words, and as you probably already know, an LP12 is a fiddly bit of kit - and I would dig a little deeper now to protect its value to you, and de-risk against a DIY route. One you have a better appreciation of how an LP12 works, that's the time you can go DIY, but this normally involves the need for a Linn LP12 jig.

In summary, in your shoes, I would 

1- get a consult with a good Linn LP12 dealer
2- get a realistic budget to play with post this, to include a service - the dealer may well have a 'bin' of pre-loved parts and even cart's, some perhaps as suggested above.

I should also mention that the orientation of the belt and the mat (one side sounds better than the other) are also things which need to be checked, and should be addressed as part of the service. Given the age of the player, I suspect a bearing oil change, new springs & grommets and a new belt would be advocated.

Moderated Post:  HL, I have edited your post and removed your last paragraph so your post complies with forum rules.

Phil Cork posted:

 

I was looking at S/H Karma and Troika but it's difficult to know what you'll get, even when people claim that they've been rebuilt....

 

 

Best to get one that needs a rebuild and get it done yourself - I wouldn't pay any premium for a claimed "low mileage" example.  They come up quite often on the usual sites.