Supernait2 Hugo/Hugo2/HugoTT

fatcat posted:

Halloween Man posted:

 more cohesive

That trumps everything else.

What cables where you using?????

 

 

Custom chord Shawline RCA to XLR  into my SCM40A speakers. Belkin usb-if certified cable. New gen entry level macbook as source, sending bit perfect data.

james n posted:

ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

Intona. Industrial or regular version differences?

No SQ difference. The connections on the industrial are more robust but that is it. I had one a while back (also had a Regen) - the Intona worked well between my Mac and Dac and is worthwhile here. With the Melco there was very little, if any difference. 

Having spent quite a bit of time messing about with these things over the years, my tip is to get the best USB source and a decent USB cable. Simple really is best 

I may hold off then as the Zenith is more capable to the Melco having done A/B. Not sure Intona will add much to an already super silent source. 

ive never tried melco or zenith so if they are as good as you and James say then intona may well be redundant. Saying that don't think melco or zenith have galvanic isolation on USB so there might well be an uplift in sq. I suspect it is a case of ymmv. I have one on order 

To the OP, to hear the Hugo at its best keep away from USB... I would almost go to the extent of saying compared to a quality SPDIF from a Naim streamer it's like night and day... resulting in a wonderfully warm and delicate  analogue sound with subtle layering, dynamics and that so called Mandelbrot effect. Listening to Imagine by John Lennon right now on 96/24 and I defy anyone not to feel emotional listening to that on my 252 based system... it's sublime... You say I am a dreamer.... yes, but I am not the only one... all thoughts of digital, analogue etc become a complete irrelevance quite frankly  ... you are simply transported  into the music.

i am afraid with various USB sources including the Melco the same effect with the Hugo or TT has never been realised for me and I have been simply listening to a very good Hi-Fi system instead...

Simon, that’s a great point.

If you listen to music played on a CD or turntable and you simply listen to the music, without any thought to whether it sounds correct, accurate, digital or analogue, you know you’re listening to a good CD or Turntable.

About 10 years ago I owned a CDS2 and a manticore mantra/musician DL103 (both second hand, the turntable/cartridge was a quarter the cost of the cd player). Both excellent front ends IMO, not once did contemplate improving/tweaking either.

I then got a Ndac, that was a different story, it didn’t sound right, I was constantly tweaking it, trying to get it to sound as good as the CDS2. Sold the Ndac after nine month, bought a top spec manticore mantra, then sold the CDS2. The Cd payer was sold because I’d stopped buying CD’s and it was taking up too much space.

I’ve owned a mojo for about 3 month, I rarely turn it on and simply listen to the music, usually I’m contemplating how I can make it sound better. Agree concerning USB, it is too bright, coax is OK, but I prefer optical.

Hi Simon, you certainly make a convincing case for trying digital coax from a Naim source. Seems Chord have changed the original Hugo coax input to a 3.5mm input.

I think the key to usb is a quiet isolated source (this is where intona usb earns its keep), a proper usb cable (usb-if certified), and a bit perfect player such as Roon, iTunes, jRiver, or Audirvana. The advantage you get with Hugo 2 usb over coax is that the usb is isochronous asynchronous so the timing will come from Hugo 2, not the source, and if using Windows driver you also have error correction, so if Hugo 2 gets a packet error then the data will be resent. In theory, this should result in improved sound quality.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

To the OP, to hear the Hugo at its best keep away from USB... I would almost go to the extent of saying compared to a quality SPDIF from a Naim streamer it's like night and day... resulting in a wonderfully warm and delicate  analogue sound with subtle layering, dynamics and that so called Mandelbrot effect. Listening to Imagine by John Lennon right now on 96/24 and I defy anyone not to feel emotional listening to that on my 252 based system... it's sublime... You say I am a dreamer.... yes, but I am not the only one... all thoughts of digital, analogue etc become a complete irrelevance quite frankly  ... you are simply transported  into the music.

i am afraid with various USB sources including the Melco the same effect with the Hugo or TT has never been realised for me and I have been simply listening to a very good Hi-Fi system instead...

Hi Simon,

Thanks for chiming in on this.It's been sending me crazy. 

I have noted tonight that the timbre of the hit hats on Everything But Girl - Walking Wounded (Omni mix) sounds very irritating with the TT. Very false.

The Hugo and the Hugo 2 much more listenable.

Anyway, to your point "wonderfully warm and analogue sound", I think I need to try this. I am getting nowhere with more expensive DACs.

Actually the diffusion of the Hugo and Hugo2 to a certain extent is sounding preferable on a long listen. 

At least I can use the Zenith as a good store.

I think I am going to have to try this NDX/coax route. 

The ndx costs a serious amount of money, it might be an amazing bit of kit but I would try intona usb for a few of hundred quid first, small and easy to return if it does nothing for you.

Are your music files in lossless format such as flac or Apple Lossless? Does your player offer bit perfect playback of these files (ie it's not converting them)?

Halloween Man posted:

The ndx costs a serious amount of money, it might be an amazing bit of kit but I would try intona usb for a few of hundred quid first, small and easy to return if it does nothing for you.

Are your music files in lossless format such as flac or Apple Lossless? Does your player offer bit perfect playback of these files (ie it's not converting them)?

Ha. I am in that stuck place again!

Intona vs NDX. Logic says start small.

All WAV files ripped dirext to Zenith. I don't bother with lossless. It sounds flatter to my ears. People argue otherwise, including manufacturers. But I feel some emotion is lost.

Zenith is bitperfect yes.

Halloween Man posted:

The ndx costs a serious amount of money, it might be an amazing bit of kit but I would try intona usb for a few of hundred quid first, small and easy to return if it does nothing for you.

Quite - my experiences weren't with the DAC that you use so mileage will vary. If, as Simon says, the Hugo is sensitive to the input used and the S/PDIF input is the best choice then you have a few options with your Zenith. A USB to S/PDIF converter may be the way to go. Mutec lead the field here but the Gustard U12 seems to be a popular choice and a lot cheaper. 

Halloween Man posted:

...... if Hugo 2 gets a packet error then the data will be resent. In theory, this should result in improved sound quality.

Nope, not with an isochronous transfer it won't, and for good reason.  

I'm not entirely convinced coax is the best digital input on Hugo 2. Theoretically, for the reasons I stated above, usb should offer best sq, and is Rob Watts preferred digital input. In reality it will depend on personal preference and system component quality and what they do best. Naim optimises their streamers to use digital coax output.

SongStream posted:

Halloween Man posted:

...... if Hugo 2 gets a packet error then the data will be resent. In theory, this should result in improved sound quality.

Nope, not with an isochronous transfer it won't, and for good reason.  

 

isochronous asynchronous  - Rob Watts stated in another forum the windows chord dac driver re-sent error data - if hugo 2 gets a packet error, data is resent

Halloween Man posted:

SongStream posted:

Halloween Man posted:

...... if Hugo 2 gets a packet error then the data will be resent. In theory, this should result in improved sound quality.

Nope, not with an isochronous transfer it won't, and for good reason.  

 

isochronous asynchronous  - Rob Watts stated in another forum the windows chord dac driver re-sent error data - if hugo 2 gets a packet error, data is resent

Did he?

He certainly did 

Halloween Man posted:

He certainly did 

Well, using a transfer protocol that explicitly does not allow for a retry to due to the time critical nature of applications that use it, he's exceeded my expectations once more.  

I demoed a Hugo 2 against my old Arcam rDAC recently and I must say there was b^%^$r all difference.

markharro posted:

I demoed a Hugo 2 against my old Arcam rDAC recently and I must say there was b^%^$r all difference.

What was the rest of the system?

markharro posted:

I demoed a Hugo 2 against my old Arcam rDAC recently and I must say there was b^%^$r all difference.

Depends on system, ears, room. There's a huge difference to my ears, in my system and room between a Audiolab M-DAC + Chord Sig power lead and a Hugo 1. Likewise is the sound of the Hugo 1 vs 2 very different.

I have a late addition to my comments on the last night before return.

I stand by my previous comments. 

To add to this I was listen to a couple of tracks earlier. One EBTG - Walking Wounded and Elton John Sacrifice. I noticed that the TT was irritating me whilst my attention was elsewhere. The percussion timbre was a little ticky and metallic sounded. I switched back to the Hugo1. Diffuse sound seem to clear it. Hugo 2 much better also. TT sounded a bit false in this sense.

This could be because it's that good it's showing up more (Probably the case vs Hugo 1). Or that it simply isn't as timbre accurate as the Hugo2.

Halloween man mentioned timbre I think earlier.

Thanks for the great write up, exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for.  I borrowed  DAVE for a few days, for me a game changer, the first  digital I've heard to match/better my turntable, but in the end I just couldn't justify the outlay (for now).  Interested if anyone has spent quality time comparing  Hugo2  to DAVE (especially if the conclusion is that it offers  98%+ of the SQ for <25% of the £).  

Norton posted:

Thanks for the great write up, exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for.  I borrowed  DAVE for a few days, for me a game changer, the first  digital I've heard to match/better my TT, but in the end I just couldn't justify the outlay (for now).  Interested if anyone has spent quality time comparing  Hugo2  to DAVE (especially if the conclusion is that it offers  98%+ of the SQ for <25% of the £).  

I'm interested in Dave vs TT? 

Does Dave really go to that analogue place. Completely accurate timbre of instrumemts and voices? Ie no digital edge.

I find all of Hugo1,2,TT to still bare some digitalness? 

I'm still working though. NDX, Hiface SPDIF, Intona and then it's probably give up or... Save for Dave!

ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

Norton posted:

Thanks for the great write up, exactly the kind of comparison I was looking for.  I borrowed  DAVE for a few days, for me a game changer, the first  digital I've heard to match/better my TT, but in the end I just couldn't justify the outlay (for now).  Interested if anyone has spent quality time comparing  Hugo2  to DAVE (especially if the conclusion is that it offers  98%+ of the SQ for <25% of the £).  

I'm interested in Dave vs TT? 

Does Dave really go to that analogue place. Completely accurate timbre of instrumemts and voices? Ie no digital edge.

I find all of Hugo1,2,TT to still bare some digitalness? 

I'm still working though. NDX, Hiface SPDIF, Intona and then it's probably give up or... Save for Dave!

Based on what I've owned or heard, DACs have always fallen into 2 camps: those with a detailed  but to some extent polite and  "thin" sound (I'd put both  my old Hugo1 and my current Esoteric into this category, some might describe this as an analytical sound)  and those with a  big 3D sound but glossing over some  of the finer detail (I'd put my DAC64 into this category, some might call this a more "romantic" sound ).  What DAVE  does  is to offer all of the detail combined with that big holographic  "reach  out and touch" sound - a combination I've hitherto only got from vinyl.  However, I did think that very occasionally  DAVE did sound a little "edgy", which surprised  me as my Hugo1 never  sounded anything other than refined and unfatiguing.   

ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

I'm still working though. NDX, Hiface SPDIF, Intona and then it's probably give up or... Save for Dave!

When you do get set up with a Naim NAC  do ensure you get the signal earth ground sorted... incorrectly setup you may get a slightly thin and  slightly polite sound... get the ground sorted and again the subtle warmth and dynamics should be eminating  out of that little silver box into the NAC... ok not on a par with NDAC /555PS, but to the same extent as NDS/555PS on my system. Again search the forum, quite a lot written about this over recent years. I use my CDX2 for earth grounding duty....

berkeley reference dac/ meitner/ msb/emm labs/dcs/cec/ps audio/ear yoshino 192 dacute/ nagra hd/ayre q9/auralic vega/antelope zodiac / bricasti/ totaldac/esoteric:  14 dacs here, among the best.   Chord dacs are not the only one.