Best TT?

Again in the spirit of the OP, I'd offer the Townshend  Rock7.   A somewhat different approach to vinyl replay and at the price ( not currently available I believe) I doubt there is anything to match it on detail retrieval, dynamics,  bass and that overall sense of realism.  

Norton posted:

Again in the spirit of the OP, I'd offer the Townshend  Rock7.   A somewhat different approach to vinyl replay and at the price ( not currently available I believe) I doubt there is anything to match it on detail retrieval, dynamics,  bass and that overall sense of realism.  

 

the townsend rock reference was among the top....but the rock 7 , very good as it can be, is more on the rega p7 turntable level...perhaps a little better.

A great TT over there is Palmer, I've had mine for maybe 5 years, show demo.  Solid performance DVXX2 cartridge and a Herron preamp that has a tube in the mix.  Stunning sound I can listen for hours.  When that was put in a friend said "whatever you did was all worth it".  I had a Duke Ellington album on and then Ella, and THEN Billie Holiday re-release.  Close your eyes and she was in the room with bass plucking behind her and slight snare tishing away.  Jaw dropping detail and oh soooo smooth and natural.  I've never tired of it.  Don't know what needle I'll go to next.

I can't thank my dealer enough.

mudwolf posted:

A great TT over there is Palmer, I've had mine for maybe 5 years, show demo.  Solid performance DVXX2 cartridge and a Herron preamp that has a tube in the mix.  Stunning sound I can listen for hours.  When that was put in a friend said "whatever you did was all worth it".  I had a Duke Ellington album on and then Ella, and THEN Billie Holiday re-release.  Close your eyes and she was in the room with bass plucking behind her and slight snare tishing away.  Jaw dropping detail and oh soooo smooth and natural.  I've never tired of it.  Don't know what needle I'll go to next.

I can't thank my dealer enough.

Herron is a winner phono stage I hear.  They also have the ability to reverse polarity using the remote.   The Vinyl Valet, who sold and set up my Verdier, is a big Herron fan.  I have also heard good things about the Palmer.    

It is remarkable to me that Naim, for all their analog and digital capability, has never implemented a reverse polarity button in the remote.   You could do it in the new Superline or in the digital domain for a new DAC.  It might make me trade out of my CD Player or old Superline!

Thanks for the comment on the Verdier, Mr. Rooster.  It is a big step up from the Rega.  I have had this one since 2000 and only a Kleos  SL and a few Herbie's Audiolab bits have been necessary to bring it current.   I can't imagine a Naim system sounding better than it does at my house.  I would welcome any of you for a visit someday, should you dare to visit.

"A Verdier is a big step up on the Rega". Apologies if I mentioned the  LP12 and got Peter involved.  I didn't realise you wanted to downgrade. 

Deepest apologies. 

Carry on...

mudwolf posted:

A great TT over there is Palmer, I've had mine for maybe 5 years, show demo.  Solid performance DVXX2 cartridge and a Herron preamp that has a tube in the mix.  Stunning sound I can listen for hours.  When that was put in a friend said "whatever you did was all worth it".  I had a Duke Ellington album on and then Ella, and THEN Billie Holiday re-release.  Close your eyes and she was in the room with bass plucking behind her and slight snare tishing away.  Jaw dropping detail and oh soooo smooth and natural.  I've never tired of it.  Don't know what needle I'll go to next.

I can't thank my dealer enough.

i read some days ago a review of the Palmer 25 in stereophile magazine. Very positive review. The turntable uses a high mass platter with a low torque motor, but the sound have a lot of drive and momentum, with audio origami pu7 cartridge. Total cost is around 11k. The reviewer preferred it to his past garrard, lp12 and audio note tt3 turntables.

French Rooster posted:

mudwolf posted:

A great TT over there is Palmer, I've had mine for maybe 5 years, show demo.  Solid performance DVXX2 cartridge and a Herron preamp that has a tube in the mix.  Stunning sound I can listen for hours.  When that was put in a friend said "whatever you did was all worth it".  I had a Duke Ellington album on and then Ella, and THEN Billie Holiday re-release.  Close your eyes and she was in the room with bass plucking behind her and slight snare tishing away.  Jaw dropping detail and oh soooo smooth and natural.  I've never tired of it.  Don't know what needle I'll go to next.

I can't thank my dealer enough.

i read some days ago a review of the Palmer 25 in stereophile magazine. Very positive review. The turntable uses a high mass platter with a low torque motor, but the sound have a lot of drive and momentum, with audio origami pu7 cartridge. Total cost is around 11k. The reviewer preferred it to his past garrard, lp12 and audio note tt3 turntables.

Are you for real? All you  do is quote reviews from mags. Have you actually listened to  these decks? If not, I suggest  you stop your verbal nonsense.

Tony2011 posted:

French Rooster posted:

mudwolf posted:

A great TT over there is Palmer, I've had mine for maybe 5 years, show demo.  Solid performance DVXX2 cartridge and a Herron preamp that has a tube in the mix.  Stunning sound I can listen for hours.  When that was put in a friend said "whatever you did was all worth it".  I had a Duke Ellington album on and then Ella, and THEN Billie Holiday re-release.  Close your eyes and she was in the room with bass plucking behind her and slight snare tishing away.  Jaw dropping detail and oh soooo smooth and natural.  I've never tired of it.  Don't know what needle I'll go to next.

I can't thank my dealer enough.

i read some days ago a review of the Palmer 25 in stereophile magazine. Very positive review. The turntable uses a high mass platter with a low torque motor, but the sound have a lot of drive and momentum, with audio origami pu7 cartridge. Total cost is around 11k. The reviewer preferred it to his past garrard, lp12 and audio note tt3 turntables.

Are you for real? All you  do is quote reviews from mags. Have you actually listened to  these decks? If not, I suggest  you stop your verbal nonsense.

verbal nonsense ? you are serious ?  of course i have not heard all these turntables, who can?  but the reviews can learn you a lot. I have sme20 , before rega p25 and rega p9, clearaudio master reference for some time at home. My dealer have some vpi, i heard also the verdier la platine in other Paris dealer, and heard several times the lp12, alone, with different arms, lingo, keel, etc.....I heard the nothingam dais too and also avid acutus reference. But of course not all these turntables at home.

For Palmer, brinkman and raven, i have not heard.

Ps: Michael Fremer is a well known analog specialist, he is reviewing turntables since 30 years. It is very interesting to read him. Jonathan Valin from absolute sound ttoo. I trust more these reviews than forum members, naim or not.  The quotation i give is of course not mine, but a synthesis of reviews on specialized magazines, like stereophile, absolute sound , hificritic, 10 audio, hifi news.  For myself i am hearing turntables since 20 years.   I have heard a lot, but i am of course not a specialist, i prefer to trust specialists.

What is your problem guy? relax

French Rooster posted:

Tony2011 posted:

French Rooster posted:

mudwolf posted:

A great TT over there is Palmer, I've had mine for maybe 5 years, show demo.  Solid performance DVXX2 cartridge and a Herron preamp that has a tube in the mix.  Stunning sound I can listen for hours.  When that was put in a friend said "whatever you did was all worth it".  I had a Duke Ellington album on and then Ella, and THEN Billie Holiday re-release.  Close your eyes and she was in the room with bass plucking behind her and slight snare tishing away.  Jaw dropping detail and oh soooo smooth and natural.  I've never tired of it.  Don't know what needle I'll go to next.

I can't thank my dealer enough.

i read some days ago a review of the Palmer 25 in stereophile magazine. Very positive review. The turntable uses a high mass platter with a low torque motor, but the sound have a lot of drive and momentum, with audio origami pu7 cartridge. Total cost is around 11k. The reviewer preferred it to his past garrard, lp12 and audio note tt3 turntables.

Are you for real? All you  do is quote reviews from mags. Have you actually listened to  these decks? If not, I suggest  you stop your verbal nonsense.

verbal nonsense ? you are serious ?  of course i have not heard all these turntables, who can?  but the reviews can learn you a lot. I have sme20 , before rega p25 and rega p9, clearaudio master reference for some time at home. My dealer have some vpi, i heard also the verdier la platine in other Paris dealer, and heard several times the lp12, alone, with different arms, lingo, keel, etc.....I heard the nothingam dais too and also avid acutus reference. But of course not all these turntables at home.

For Palmer, brinkman and raven, i have not heard.

Ps: Michael Fremer is a well known analog specialist, he is reviewing turntables since 30 years. It is very interesting to read him. Jonathan Valin from absolute sound ttoo. I trust more these reviews than forum members, naim or not.  The quotation i give is of course not mine, but a synthesis of reviews on specialized magazines, like stereophile, absolute sound , hificritic, 10 audio, hifi news.  For myself i am hearing turntables since 20 years.   I have heard a lot, but i am of course not a specialist, i prefer to trust specialists.

 

What is your problem guy? relax

Oh, bother. You're really not worth my saliva!

Tony2011 posted:

French Rooster posted:

Tony2011 posted:

French Rooster posted:

mudwolf posted:

A great TT over there is Palmer, I've had mine for maybe 5 years, show demo.  Solid performance DVXX2 cartridge and a Herron preamp that has a tube in the mix.  Stunning sound I can listen for hours.  When that was put in a friend said "whatever you did was all worth it".  I had a Duke Ellington album on and then Ella, and THEN Billie Holiday re-release.  Close your eyes and she was in the room with bass plucking behind her and slight snare tishing away.  Jaw dropping detail and oh soooo smooth and natural.  I've never tired of it.  Don't know what needle I'll go to next.

I can't thank my dealer enough.

i read some days ago a review of the Palmer 25 in stereophile magazine. Very positive review. The turntable uses a high mass platter with a low torque motor, but the sound have a lot of drive and momentum, with audio origami pu7 cartridge. Total cost is around 11k. The reviewer preferred it to his past garrard, lp12 and audio note tt3 turntables.

Are you for real? All you  do is quote reviews from mags. Have you actually listened to  these decks? If not, I suggest  you stop your verbal nonsense.

verbal nonsense ? you are serious ?  of course i have not heard all these turntables, who can?  but the reviews can learn you a lot. I have sme20 , before rega p25 and rega p9, clearaudio master reference for some time at home. My dealer have some vpi, i heard also the verdier la platine in other Paris dealer, and heard several times the lp12, alone, with different arms, lingo, keel, etc.....I heard the nothingam dais too and also avid acutus reference. But of course not all these turntables at home.

For Palmer, brinkman and raven, i have not heard.

Ps: Michael Fremer is a well known analog specialist, he is reviewing turntables since 30 years. It is very interesting to read him. Jonathan Valin from absolute sound ttoo. I trust more these reviews than forum members, naim or not.  The quotation i give is of course not mine, but a synthesis of reviews on specialized magazines, like stereophile, absolute sound , hificritic, 10 audio, hifi news.  For myself i am hearing turntables since 20 years.   I have heard a lot, but i am of course not a specialist, i prefer to trust specialists.

 

What is your problem guy? relax

Oh, bother. You're really not worth my saliva!

stay with your little lp12 world, it is better....

Tony2011 posted:

"A Verdier is a big step up on the Rega". Apologies if I mentioned the  LP12 and got Peter involved.  I didn't realise you wanted to downgrade. 

Deepest apologies. 

Carry on...

 

Thanks but no thanks.   Linn would be fun to try but needs a local dealer.  Not a Transatlantic dealer.  My Verdier dealer is a Southwest non-stop away.

Skip posted:

Tony2011 posted:

"A Verdier is a big step up on the Rega". Apologies if I mentioned the  LP12 and got Peter involved.  I didn't realise you wanted to downgrade. 

Deepest apologies. 

Carry on...

 

Thanks but no thanks.   Linn would be fun to try but needs a local dealer.  Not a Transatlantic dealer.  My Verdier dealer is a Southwest non-stop away.

Thank you for your polite response.

Obviously you know about Mr Swain and his well renowned international services. His services do come at a  premium. 

Do enjoy your current setup.

Best regards,

Tony,

I don't pretend to have heard even a fraction of the famous, infamous, and mythical turntables you can read about in the high end press, but I have heard far more tables than many people who don't work in the high end audio field.    In general, I don't subscribe to the beliefs of my more rabid friends who may feel that there is one product that eclipses all comers, but I will add two superb American high end designs to this growing list.    

The Spiral Groove turntables, designed by Allen Perkins from California are superbly musical tables.     I have heard them on many occasions, in various customers homes, as well as in show and store settings and they are uniformly excellent.    I still fondly recall the evening we added a Spiral Groove SG 2 to a customer's Naim system with the help of the renowned analog set up Guru Stirling Trayle, who was with Spiral Groove at the time.    This customer had enjoyed his system for a year or two, and was primarily listening to a NDX.    When he decided to add a turntable to his system, he listened extensively to both the LP 12 and the Spiral Groove with me and he came to prefer the Spiral Groove.     I don't know how much he listens to digital these days as the Spiral Groove turntable really allowed him to enjoy the glories of analog, helped immeasurably by the addition of the Superline phono stage to his system.

Another superb American design that I have only had the pleasure of hearing in a very brief afternoon that I wish had gone on much longer is the Grand Prix Audio Monaco 2.0 turntable from Colorado.     That is a table that I would love to have the luxury of living with, but I doubt that I could ever manage that financially.     Certainly it was so right sounding that it instantly led credence to designer Alvin Lloyd's unique ideas about the fundamental importance of heroic measures to assure speed control in vinyl replay in his ultra modern, high tech, direct drive turntable.

Good listening,

Bruce

If i had  means and space, Kronos Pro would be the one I would own: I have never heard a high mass  *oil rig* 'table that sounds decent or musical till this one.
Interesting part was that it did not even have a costly cartridge. And this particular one had 12" arm which it usually sucks a life out of the music. ( but not this one apparently ! )

But I would never get rid of my Sondek.

Save

I did not listen the kronos pro but kronos sparta....

Still in my dreams.... that is öne piece of good sounding engineering marvel

That my dream turntable..... 

Thorens TD 150 mk2 does 99% of the job and saves you thousands in the process 

I know because I've done it and would never go back (previous LP12 / TMS2 owner)

For those of us who are unlikely to be in the market for £20k+ turntables, here are my impressions from a comparison of more affordable yet still very good turntables: my then Linn LP12, a Roksan Xerxes 20+ and a Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace.

Now that Photobucket has gone AWOL, all the photo links have been lost, so I am transferring the images to Imgur. Hope it works....

Yoda (an outstanding Naim dealer) set up my cirkused Linn LP12 with the Linn AC motor and a new Hercules 2 power supply. The arm was a new Naim Aro.

He also set up a Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace with 12 inch arm, wave mechanic power supply and the Kuzma ebony record clamp

The third turntable was the Roksan Xerxes.20plus , mounted on the plywood foundation base, fitted with Tabriz Zi arm and the DX2/DS1.5 turntable power supply.

The rest of the system was: Dynavector xx-2 cartridge (1 for each of the turntables) , feeding a Rega Ios phono stage into my recently serviced Naim 32.5, Hicap2, 135 power amps (recently serviced) and a pair of recently run in Kudos C30 speakers. We also tried bypassing the Rega Ios, feeding the signal directly to the K boards in the 32.5. This merely confirmed what we found with the more sensitive and revealing Ios.

First up was the Linn LP12. Simply put, the most musical and enjoyable experience of listing to vinyl that I have ever had. Foot tapped, music was engaging, had great rhythm. The best my turntable has been. However, it did sound as though the C30 bass drivers were a little exuberant - showing off even, a bit too dominant and loose in the mix, though timing was spot on. We pulled the C30s even further out into the room, which lessened the bass bloom, though it was still present.

Next up came the NAS Hyperspace. A truly surprising and shocking contrast. It instantly highlighted every deficiency and weakness of the Linn. Instead of enthusiastic but less clearly defined dollops of bass, the Hyperspace told us precisely how each string of the bass guitar and double bass was plucked and whether the musician had cut their finger nails that morning. The natural balance between the tone of all the instruments just sounded "right" and natural. The Hyperspace highlighted just how the Linn emphasises mid bass notes, yet masks the fine detail that the Hyperspace reveals so beautifully. All the hifi stuff about imaging, separation, truly black spaces between notes etc. were so very, very much better on the Hyperspace. So the Hyperspace was much better than the Linn/Aro? If you listen to music in order to hear the technique and craftsmanship of the musicians as an intellectual exercise, then yes, the Hyperspace is much better than the Linn. It makes the Linn sound enthusiastic but coloured, cluttered and crude. However, I listen to music primarily for the emotional involvement, the rhythm and engagement. The Hyperspace left me cold. Despite all its prodigious strengths, I was looking at the walls within a minute of starting a track. With the Hyperspace, drummers and bass lines had a metronomic rhythm but they just seemed to lag behind everything else. I think the Hyperspace appeals to the head but not the heart. So for me, exit Hyperspace stage left...

So what of the third member of the trio, the Xerxes.20plus? Where to start..., well the Xerxes has the Linn's engaging rhythm and boogie factor, albeit when fitted with a rather fancy motor controller. The musical dynamism and attack is there in spades too. However, the Xerxes doesn't have the LP12's bass bloom. Tonally, it is much closer to my CDS3/555PS. In terms of detail retrieval and resolution, it lies mid way between the LP12 and the Hyperspace. The Hyperspace was clearly the most effortlesly revealing, the Linn clearly the least - almost as though the LP12 was an underdamped system, still ringing from the last note when the next one arrives, masking the fine detail and texture that the other 2 turntables brought out.

Conclusions? The Hyperspace will be brilliant for some, but was the first to go for me.

My LP12 is sounding at its absolute best and I could live with this arm and cartridge combination very happily for a very long time. Here's the LP12 before fitment of the Aro & Herculese power supply, together with the CDX2 & XPS2, 32.5, Hicap2 & 135s:

However, the Xerxes.20plus has the Linn's engaging rhythm, drive and fun factor, is more dynamic, has a much more neutral and natural tonal balance, digs out more detail and texture in each and every note, oh and it is better at the imaging stuff too.

So I bought the Xerxes and subsequently replaced the tonearm with its bigger brother, the Roksan Artemiz. Here it is, on its upgrade plinth:

After 6 enjoyable years, the Xerxes was replaced by one of Touraj's new designs from his new company, Vertere. Here's the current turntable.:

It's a keeper until such times as a winning lottery ticket comes this way.

Hope this helps, FT

Some very interesting contributions so far, intriguing in the different opinions and experiences cited - please do keep them coming to help paint a full picture: there is no intended conclusion to this, simply the more contributions the richer it becomes as a resource to try to understand the pros and cons of different turntables - and maybe it will become a useful resource for anyone considering what to shortlist for audition, or even make decisions to buy blind if auditioning is not an option.

Meanwhile my thanks to everyone for keeping to the intended spirit - it really is great to read people's different views and assessments of the performance/sound quality, free from adverse comments on others' choices or personal attacks as have sometimes crept in in some other threads where TTs were discussed. (Of course, healthy debate is fully welcomed to explore differences in experiences or opinions.)

I do think that most valuable are people's comparative experiences where they have heard the turntables themselves, against which citing specifications or manufacturers' marketing claims is totally meaningless in this context, and quoting of third party reviewers' published opinions is also beyond the intent of this thread.

I well remember reading a 'breakthrough' review of the Linn Sondek LP12 back in the mid 1970s, when the likes of Technics' direct drive turntables had started to rule the roost of reviews, which if I recall correctly focussed primarily on measurements of speed accuracy, wow and rumble etc. The reviewer had spent a whole weekend with Linn's founder, and had an Eureka! moment at the end when he suddenly realised he was hearing 'into' the recording in a way he never had before. This is all from memory from a single reading 40 or so years ago, so of course is more my impression of the review than accurate to what was written, and in my days of regularly reading hifi magazines up until the about the end of the 1980s I never came across another review like it. That has stuck with me over the years, and I have noted the Sondek's enduring popularity, as well as its evolution - and in part this lies behind my starting of this thread, to seek out real world experiences, both of the LP12 and the other good TTs out there, and get beyond the views of professional reviewers. (No disrespect to reviewers per se - though most interesting is always what they end up buying (in the open marketplace) for themselves, and sticking with.)

As for the effect of the Sondek my own choices, I wasn't tempted to change my Thorens because money was very tight and the cost didn't seem to be justified given that the LP12 was virtually identical at the core, with things that could be improved like the plinth (which I did), arm (of course) and suspension damping (which I didn't play with). Interesting to read Andyvk's observation in this context!

bdnyc posted:

I don't pretend to have heard even a fraction of the famous, infamous, and mythical turntables you can read about in the high end press, but I have heard far more tables than many people who don't work in the high end audio field.    In general, I don't subscribe to the beliefs of my more rabid friends who may feel that there is one product that eclipses all comers, but I will add two superb American high end designs to this growing list.    

The Spiral Groove turntables, designed by Allen Perkins from California are superbly musical tables.     I have heard them on many occasions, in various customers homes, as well as in show and store settings and they are uniformly excellent.    I still fondly recall the evening we added a Spiral Groove SG 2 to a customer's Naim system with the help of the renowned analog set up Guru Stirling Trayle, who was with Spiral Groove at the time.    This customer had enjoyed his system for a year or two, and was primarily listening to a NDX.    When he decided to add a turntable to his system, he listened extensively to both the LP 12 and the Spiral Groove with me and he came to prefer the Spiral Groove.     I don't know how much he listens to digital these days as the Spiral Groove turntable really allowed him to enjoy the glories of analog, helped immeasurably by the addition of the Superline phono stage to his system.

Another superb American design that I have only had the pleasure of hearing in a very brief afternoon that I wish had gone on much longer is the Grand Prix Audio Monaco 2.0 turntable from Colorado.     That is a table that I would love to have the luxury of living with, but I doubt that I could ever manage that financially.     Certainly it was so right sounding that it instantly led credence to designer Alvin Lloyd's unique ideas about the fundamental importance of heroic measures to assure speed control in vinyl replay in his ultra modern, high tech, direct drive turntable.

Good listening,

Bruce

 

Hey Bruce,

i have no pretention at all, i just live in Paris and there is a lot of high end dealers, also shows. In 20 years i have listened to 10 great turntables, so it is not a lot.  I was dreaming at that time to buy myself a great turntable, so i took time to visit dealers. just simple as that.

I like reading also Michael Fremer and Jonathan Valin reviews, i find it very interesting.

For spiral groove, i must confess that it is one of my favorites, from what i read about during years and the quality and simplicity of engineering. But the prices are too expensive for my budget and no dealer in France.

some think that referring to press reviews is not to be mentioned. I can understand it, because personal experience is the most important. Music is not intellectual and each turntable can be appreciated differently.

But it is very difficult to compare turntables nowadays, each dealer have in general only one brand or two, but not in the same category :  like full lp12 and rega p2,  rega p1 and Verdier la Platine....etc

The system of the dealer is also different, different speakers and electronics.  And finally no dealer will never lend you a big turntable to your home.

Michael Fremer for example have reviewed hundreds and hundreds of turntables at home, and have a lot of turntables also.  His reviews are very objective, and he compares the sound of turntables face to face. as Foot taper could have done comparing lp12, roksan and hyperspace.   I think it can help us to choose, to learn about, and give us indications.

Personally i choose sme20/ sme 5 after reading a lot reviews on this turntable. There is no sme dealer in France. I am very satisfied.

If i had the budget, i would choose better raven ac or spiral groove, even if there is no dealer in France too.

Whilst I know that looks are a matter of taste, I think Michell's offerings are a worthy contender. The Gyrodec (in SE guise) looks superb to me in action with its spinning brass weights and can be upgraded to almost Orbe status with clamp, denson damping, HR power supply etc. Michell are also a great after-sales company as I've been able to source parts 20 years after I bought the turntable (similar philosophy to Naim)! Also, unlike some, they haven't been tempted to 'hike the price' to stratospheric levels...

French Rooster posted:

Norton posted:

Again in the spirit of the OP, I'd offer the Townshend  Rock7.   A somewhat different approach to vinyl replay and at the price ( not currently available I believe) I doubt there is anything to match it on detail retrieval, dynamics,  bass and that overall sense of realism.  

 

the townsend rock reference was among the top....but the rock 7 , very good as it can be, is more on the rega p7 turntable level...perhaps a little better.

Well this is simply a thread based in opinion, but my opinion is formed from 2 decades of vinyl listening,   including over a year now of daily use with the Rock7.  As you have made the comparison,  I did actually demo the Rega RP10 before buying the Rock7 as it was easily in my budget.  For me it wasn't even close, there was simply no aspect of the presentation of the Rega that even approached what I heard from  the Rock.  I am  intrigued  though by your comment, which seems at odds not just with my first hand experience,  but with every other opinion I've ever read on the Rock7 -  how  much listening experience do you actually have with this deck?

Norton what arm are you using?

Norton posted:

French Rooster posted:

Norton posted:

Again in the spirit of the OP, I'd offer the Townshend  Rock7.   A somewhat different approach to vinyl replay and at the price ( not currently available I believe) I doubt there is anything to match it on detail retrieval, dynamics,  bass and that overall sense of realism.  

 

the townsend rock reference was among the top....but the rock 7 , very good as it can be, is more on the rega p7 turntable level...perhaps a little better.

Well this is simply a thread based in opinion, but my opinion is formed from 2 decades of vinyl listening,   including over a year now of daily use with the Rock7.  As you have made the comparison,  I did actually demo the Rega RP10 before buying the Rock7 as it was easily in my budget.  For me it wasn't even close, there was simply no aspect of the presentation of the Rega that even approached what I heard from  the Rock.  I am  intrigued  though by your comment, which seems at odds not just with my first hand experience,  but with every other opinion I've ever read on the Rock7 -  how  much listening experience do you actually have with this deck?

 

i confess that i have never heard this deck, just read reviews on. So you may be right and probably i am wrong for the rock 7.  But , even if the cost can't explain all, the rock 7 is half the price of the rega p10, and the rega p10 is already a marvelous deck for the price. So when you write than the p10 can't even approach the performance of the rock 7, i am a little sceptical. But i don't say you are wrong.

As i have wrote before, the tables i heard were only:  rega p25, rega p9, sme20, nottingham dais, clearaudio master reference, verdier la platine, vpi hrx, avid acutus, and different lp12 set up, and basis 2500, also kuzma stabi.

I have not heard the raven ac, brinkman balance, spiral groove, townsend reference and rock, nore michell orbe, vertere or kronos.

Foot tapper posted:

After 6 enjoyable years, the Xerxes was replaced by one of Touraj's new designs from his new company, Vertere. Here's the current turntable.:

 

It's a keeper until such times as a winning lottery ticket comes this way.

Hope this helps, FT

I too am a huge fan of Touraj and his Roksan TT designs.  Looks like you bought the new entry-level Vertere deck.  Were you able to audition the more expensive models?  If so, what were the differences?