Best TT?
Posted by: Innocent Bystander on 20 July 2017
TT as in Turntable not DAC!
This is NOT a vinyl vs CD or digital vs analogue thread, nor is it a "my TT and/or its engineering is bigger/cleverer/more expensive than yours" thread.
What I am seeking to explore here is characteristics of turntables, which includes what turntable is best - obviously to the individual and in the system(s) within which you have heard them. But to be meaningful it t is necessary to identify what each TT has been compared with, and importantly, what in the sound makes you reach that conclusion (e.g. Resolution, clarity, timing, accuracy, bassiness, smoothness etc etc - even, if you want, PRaT, boogie factor and even inky blackness!)
With some turntables, such as LP12, clearly the iteration of modifications and add-ons is important. And as the arm and cartridge inevitably play apart, identification of them as well, please, except perhaps where the same arm and cartridge were used for the comparison, though that would be good to confirm.
This thread is purely for interest - and unfortunately I cannot offer anything useful myself - my second TT which I had until just a few years ago was a Thorens TD150 which I had had for about 40 years, just changing the original arm to an RB300 along the way, and multiple cartridges, the last IIRC having been an ATF7 MC: I never compared directly with any other apart from the dreadfully rumbly idler-wheel SP25 it had replaced back in 1971). It sounded good to me but I felt it reached its limitation with the quality of records (surface noise, which I now, belatedly, suspect may have been partly due to inadequate cleaning). The only comparative basis I have for the sound is with CD, most recently a Shearne Audio Phase 7, all through Musical Fidelity the Preamp 2A, MF P170 power amp and IMF RSPM speakers, when I think the differences I was hearing were primarily due to the different media.
I have listened to an LP12 Ittock (I think) with same ATF7 MC cartridge, but that was in a different room, with MF MVT preamp, Audiolab 8000 power amp and IMF TLS 50 II speakers, so no real means of comparing the two turntables.
Innocent Bystander posted:can I gently remind that the prime intent of this thread is to gain people's real-life experiences where they have heard the turntables themselves.
You can, you did, and I see no reason to be gentle 
.
joerand posted:Innocent Bystander posted:can I gently remind that the prime intent of this thread is to gain people's real-life experiences where they have heard the turntables themselves.
You can, you did, and I see no reason to be gentle
the op can, did, and was gentle.
Kharma restored 
Innocent Bystander posted:This is by no means the only thread, nor the worst by far where this happens, and there are numerous "offenders" unnecessarily quoting whole conversations, and pi
Thanks IB, Great advice. So simple!
Over the years I have had a handful of turntables, some with different arms and cartridges. A few more were loaned as demo units or played in systems I knew well enough to get a handle on the tables' sound. While I still know which ones I preferred, I am no longer able to remember every single difference between them.
My journey into the land of quality record replay began with a Linn Axis/Basik Plus/K 9. It was miles better than the plastic thingy it replaced, but that's pretty much all I remember about it. The next step was the classic LP 12/Ittok II combo, first with a K 18, later with an Asaka. The LP 12, even the pre-circus, Valhalla powered one, took a ton of mechanical artifacts away from the music. Some of this came via a noticeably lower groove noise, the rest as truer and better differentiated timbres. The whole PRAT thing surely did it thing as well.
After selling the Linn due to financial constraints, I returned to the record playing crowd with a Pink Triangle Anniversary. This was a great deck and one I could still live with today. A friend of mine actually does exactly that . If I remember things right, PT claimed "master tape performance" for the Anniversary. Surely some hyperbole, but not that much. Compared to my LP 12, every single record was easier to listen to. The sound was less colored, but in a wholly good way. Different records sounded more different from another, which made their meanings easier to understand. Another big thing was the decoupling of the remaining noise from the music itself. What little noise was left, was no longer in the same plane as the music. More like a different event occurring at the same time and place. These characteristics were noticeable from the start and only improved with better tonearms and cartridges. I had Linn Akito and Ekos, the Zeta and Graham Series 1.5 and 2 arms and Lyra Lydian and Koetsu Urushi cartridges on it.
My current table is the Bauer dps with a Graham 2.2 and Transfiguration cartridge, the Urushi gets some action from time to time. The dps builds on the PTs strengths and adds more stability and ease. Both do so much right intellectually, that my mind refrains from interfering with the music. This allows a better and more direct connection to whatever is playing. The dps has seen some updates, mostly the motor and its psu and a few more tonearms. Those were a Schröder, the Aro and the Phantom from Graham. Of these three the Aro was the best, but there is something about the Series 2 Graham, that is just right for me.
I know some of the Acoustic Signature tables, which are good but visually unacceptable for me, very much unlike the dps . The Brinkmann Bardo was simply not in the same league as the Bauer. Of Helmut Brinkmanns designs, the Avance and Balance remain my favorites. Not exactly my style of reproduction, but very good. I happen to like the Nouvelle Platine Verdier sonically, if not visually.
The classic Thorens 124 has its own noticeable charms. What it does well, things like drive and momentum, are simply not as important as the things it does not. The intellectual rightness and ability to show the finesse of a great piano solo are not there for me.
maybe not the best tt of the world, but very good: my vpi scoutmaster with flywheel and sds; each upgrade was more than noticeable, and the jump from a goldenote cart to the "smallest" koetsu was one into vinyl heaven;
and, by the way: if you have a tt with adjustable speed i would highly recommend this:
costs about 20 euros (app is free) and is very exact. right speed is good for playing records christoph
ps: interesting topic, please post more pictures!!!
[@mention:61965734410701809] While I have had more than one phono stage, my experiences are limited here. The first newer design used with the dps was the Ayre P 5. Usefully high gain and a basically neutral sounding. Unfortunately every single component from Ayre sounds initially quite good and even involving, but only for 15 to 20 minutes. After that I turn the volume down and loose interest. This took some time to realize, more the a couple of years actually. Next was the Brinkmann fein, much more enjoyable in the long run. Maybe a little subdued with the low output cartridges I used. A friend of mine has one of these for more than ten years and is still very pleased with what it does.
Shortly after its launch I borrowed the Bauer phono from my dealer and went that way. It is more open and expressive compared to the fein. I had a Superline on demo for a couple of weeks. Due to a mixup of cables I had to power it from my SN instead of a HiCap. Even under these circumstances, it was at least as good as the Bauer. Perhaps unsurprisingly, given the prices of both. The SL is much more flexible with its loading options, which you already know 
.
I have never thought about a record mat on the dps. Sorry, no help from me here.