Kudos Titan 707 vs ProAc 3.8

Thanks Miki and great photographs too.  If you find the Proac sound signature to be right for you, have you considered the Proac D48R or K6 speakers?  The K6 price in the UK is about the same as the Kudos 707.

Best regards, FT

Yes indeed; nice pics Miki.

Are you running the loudspeakers beside each other, or taking the unused ones out of the room?

Maybe it's the break-in period? Should I wait a few more weeks to get that kind of openness of the ProAc?

Running-in loudspeakers of course makes a difference but if the character of a model on home-dem doesn't engage you from the off; that aspect won't change much. Pro-Acs have a different sonic signature and presentation to Kudos models. Just a matter of personal taste and room matching, as ever.

Good luck.

John.

Foot tapper posted:

Thanks Miki and great photographs too.  If you find the Proac sound signature to be right for you, have you considered the Proac D48R or K6 speakers?  The K6 price in the UK is about the same as the Kudos 707.

Best regards, FT

I can only endorse FT's observation. I moved up from D20Rs to K6, paired with much cheaper Naim source and amplification than yours. They sound sublime! I am no good at hifi reviews I'm afraid, but were you to read the 3 or 4 commercial reviews available via the Internet (there are links on ProAc's web site), all I can say is that they do not lie or exaggerate. These are extremely high quality speakers (as they should be for the price), and if you enjoy the ProAc sound please audition them. You owe it to yourself!

Regards

Tim

Could I ask for your room size? 

S

If an older design like the Proac 3.8 can compete with an up to the minute design by Kudos, I think your decision should be a fairly easy one.

Listen to the newer Proac's in the same price range as the Titan 707's then decide. Personally, I would stick with the Proac's.

Breaking in speakers can take "some" time. Worst ever, Ovator 600 (9 months). Titan 808 needed at least a month to become "magical". Don't know how 707 competes with Proac but be sure they are runned in first before any discussion is done. 

//Jonas

Decision 

Stover posted:

Could I ask for your room size? 

S

Thanks all and sorry for my late reply.

My room size 4.5m X 6.5m with 3m from each side as you can see in the figure below (blue - sofa, greens - speakers).
John, I move the ProAcs when I hear the Kudos, but they are in the same room - not ideal, I know.

For classical music I much prefer the sound of the Kudos, because of it's refinement and ultra-detailed full-range spectrum.
The ProAc are better when it comes to some rock performances or jazz\blues when they put singers\instruments (e.g. drums) in my room as if they are real
in regard for their size and immediacy and they have more details in the mid and the upper-mid (might be because they're 3-way speakers?).

The high frequencies don't come close to the Kudos, music is much more fluid with the Kudos.
The bass with the Kudos is tighter and darker, but the ProAc add some velvet to the bass which is very nice.

The overall sound with the Kudos is darker, more engaging and pleasant - but you hear a great hi-fi system instead of live instruments.
The overall sound with the ProAc is brighter, a bit meaningless and compressed - but you hear live instruments instead of a great hi-fi system.

Miki.

So keep the ProAc and save yourself £13000.

I spent many hours listening to the 3.8 with a variety of amps...Audio Research M200 monoblocks. some Chord amps, the NAP500 and even a 300 wpc Boulder power amp. In all cases the 3.8 were simply too inefficient, causing the clipping light of even the Boulder to flash all-too-frequently. The strong traits were HF purity and imaging-and the beautiful yew wood finish, but they lacked dynamics or true LF grunt. By comparison, an old Proac Tablette also at hand sounded more lively, but far more primitive. 

Eventually they were gutted and redesigned from being a 2.5 way to a 2-way speaker-requiring a new x/o (the factory one is quite uninspiring) with a massive boost in SQ and greater efficiency too. 

The D3.8 apparently addressed the shortcomings above. 

Miki -

I have a room like yours, mine has a beam which protrudes from the ceiling above the split in the space (i.e. above your sofa as I see things). Have you something similar?

The reason I mention this is that the sound and reverberation in the 2 room zones is very different - a simple clap hands test reveals this. One end is 'deader', which is where my speakers are positioned (similar to yours per the diagram). Setting up speakers is a bit of a tease as if you sit halfway down the room (and try and avoid any 'reflections'), the sound is bassy and alive (even visceral at higher SPLs) - whereas if you move to the rear of the room (I have glass doors to the rear), the sound changes markedly and becomes better ordered (to my ears). There is quite a trade-off to be had.

I preferred the Kudos S20 to naim's Ovators S400/S600.
The 707 is a reference in it's class - Impressive power alongside gently fading.
Wait for the break-in period to end.

I have the same experience as Martin, preferring S20 to Ovator 400/600. I also owned them all and have used them for long periods. 

I now use 808 which I couldn't praise enough.

//Jonas

Never liked the Kudos 'effect', we compared the active ATC  40s (the entry level all in package as to speak)  at the dealer's to the more expensive as passive C30s. No contest ,the latter making good ,boring 'sounds'  , the formers just letting the music flow with no distraction much more introspection into music and especially integration between drivers.  Proacs  ,in a different way ,are quite as rewarding as the active ATCs. 

If you like the ProAC house sound, do give the D48R or K6 a shot against the Kudos before deciding. I have the D48R in a system not as good as yours and they are excellent.

The new ProAcs (e.g. K6, D48R) are not available for a home demo in my country.

I would like to know what are the differences between 707 and 808?

More scale and deeper bass for sure, but also "real" instruments in the room like the 3.8?

I really would miss that effect if I swap the ProAc. 

Best

Miki.