Meicord, Supra or something else?

I'm not sure that cat7, 8 etc are of any merit unless the equipment it plugs into is designed for it, so that would be a first thing to check if not known. As for whether expensive cables make a difference, the jury seems to be more reluctant to agree compared to analogue cables. The only real answer is the usual: you have to hear for yourself, in your system. However, the dedicated cable makes sense to me, as it minimises the traffic on it and mines anything connected to it. Why not try that with first a cheap but decent quality computer grade cat5e or cat6 (depending on equipment), and if that improves on what you have it might be all you need, or at least then you have lime-for-lime with which to compare boutique cables.

No clue whether it makes much difference to have a posh wires. But I read good things about Chord C-Stream. I would use this for the 20m run -- will cost you £16, I think. Not cheap but not a silly price at £8/m either. And if you value your time (think about the installation time etc), it might be "cheaper" than experimenting with decent computer grade cables first, for which you probably won't settle... 

Good thinking IB. I'll see if I can connect my current 20m run of cat7 to the switch at my streamer and have a listen. 

[@mention:63936634726737555] that price puts the Chord in the same ball park at the Supra and Meicord so is worth investigating  

Timo posted:

No clue whether it makes much difference to have a posh wires. But I read good things about Chord C-Stream. I would use this for the 20m run -- will cost you £16, I think. Not cheap but not a silly price at £8/m either. And if you value your time (think about the installation time etc), it might be "cheaper" than experimenting with decent computer grade cables first, for which you probably won't settle... 

I think a zero may have been dropped there...

If I were trying direct vs whatever is presently installed I'd simply run it through the house, hooking it or draping it loosely with virtually zero installation time first, and only bother running it properly if it proved  beneficial. Ditto if I was camparing cheap and expensive network cables.

Absolutely, that's what I'd do. 

Blue jeans are good cables

I used to have Supra Cat7 (Cat8 predecessor) installed on all my network branches.  Its a great cable & I'm not saying otherwise, but I found mine broke some RJ45 plug locking clips, all the breaks were at the ends into my Netgear switch & it appeared to me the interface between the switch metal port shrouds & the Supra plug locking clips.  My advice is to make sure you minimise any movement with Supra RJ45 plugs in the ports.  

I replaced the 2x NAS-Switch-NDX branches with Meicord,  I made the choice because of the reviews & especially the engineering.  SQ is as good/better than Supra.  

Without getting into the 'silly' money as you call it,  I would also look at Chord C-Stream & Blue Jeans Cables BJC C6AP

I've seen the cat 7+ available too. It looks a bit chunkier than the cat8. In what ways is the SQ of the meicord better than the supra Mike B? 

FinkFan,  the difference between ethernet cable SQ is not something I like to get into,  its very subjective, the SQ changes are subtle & I'm not convinced whatever changes do exist are consistent across player makes, models, switches & NAS's.  And one thing for sure is whatever I say I hear will be disagreed with by another.   However looking back at my notes;  first I heard a warmer sound together with a more sound stage space, clarity & definition.        I also remember reading on the forum that was much like how another forumite heard in the Meicord,  also (if I recall correctly) that C-Stream might be an alternative to an already 'warm' system.    But hear I go,  babbling on about ethernet sound changes.

Thanks Mike 

I agree with Mike's stated principle in his first sentence.  I believe the effect of Ethernet cables on sound will vary between different systems (and maybe also locations) as the influence isn't direct but is by the tuning (i.e. filtration) and variable coupling of RFI into the system.

In my case both changing to a Chord C-Stream and also adding a couple of heavy clip on ferrites (I found those from Würt Elektronik to work best) made a big difference with the ND5 XS.  With the 272 / 555DR the difference is still there but it's rather less significant and also somewhat different in nature.

I went with the Supra 8 was £60 for 5m, tgat improvement was subtle but noticeable, adding the Netgear switch however was moderate and a big improvement.

Obsydian posted:

I went with the Supra 8 was £60 for 5m, tgat improvement was subtle but noticeable, adding the Netgear switch however was moderate and a big improvement.

       ..............   what model Netgear switch did you install  & what/how was the switch function previously,   another switch or a wireless router (make & model)  

Mike-B posted:

Obsydian posted:

I went with the Supra 8 was £60 for 5m, tgat improvement was subtle but noticeable, adding the Netgear switch however was moderate and a big improvement.

       ..............   what model Netgear switch did you install  & what/how was the switch function previously,   another switch or a wireless router (make & model)  

I went from a Sky router to muso, to the Sky router to Netgear 105 switch to the muso

[@mention:51970829741422995] ... as I read it currently you have a single cable from Router to Switch 1 where most equipment is, and then a cable from Switch 1 to Switch 2 where your NAC-N 272 is connected.

You want to change it so the Router has two cables, one to Switch 1 and one to Switch 2. 

I would suggest the topology of the current setup is actually better, especially if you use a NAS which is also connected to Switch 1.  If you change to your suggested topology any traffic for the 272 has to pass through the Router and both switches.  The switching technology in a dedicated Switch is superior to that in a Router (especially if we’re talking an ISP supplied Router) so try to minimise the traffic passing through there as much as possible is my own thoughts.

Hi [@mention:1566878603969011] yes that's exactly my current setup. Fortunately both switches 1 and 2 are in the same room, so when I get a nas, that can feed into switch 2, avoiding switch 1 and router. 

As a side thought I may also look into changing my ISP supplied router at some point. The current one is a cheap looking box of bits. I have a Netgear one laying around. 

I would suggest keeping your ISP router, as it has a whole bunch of settings I don't understand, and is supported by your ISP, which a third party device will not be. Putting a better device at the centre of your LAN does make sense, though. Just turn off WiFi on the router, and connect your chosen device to it with an Ethernet cable. I've been using an AirPort Extreme like this for about 10 years. Changing ISP becomes easier too, as your LAN continues to function without their router connected. 

I'm not sure if Chord make C-Stream in 20m lengths, but it's very stiff and not so easy to bend around corners, so could be a bit of a PITA for long runs. 

Thanks [@mention:36201736949470193]. I'll leave the router well alone then. It turns out my deal ends mid December anyway so I'll be changing provider. 

Ive checked and the chord does come in 20m lengths. Didn't realise it was a stiffer cable. There are a couple of bends, not tight, that need to be negotiated so it might not be the cable for me. Plus the oversized plugs may make installation a bit tricky too. 

 Chord specify a minimum bend radius of 50mm for C-Stream, which can make things difficult. I ended up using an optical cable for my LAN  as it's very thin and easy to work with but there are plenty of Cat5/6 cables that are easier than C-Stream. 

Finkfan posted:

Ive checked and the chord does come in 20m lengths. Didn't realise it was a stiffer cable. There are a couple of bends, not tight, that need to be negotiated so it might not be the cable for me. Plus the oversized plugs may make installation a bit tricky too. 

The problem with this approach is that you are still putting your router and its mediocre hardware at the heart of your network.  Best to work out your best switch, and consider that the central hub.  All other networking (secondary switches and router) should connect back to that.

I suspect you are thinking two cables back to your router will provide some kind of "isolation" for the audio network.  But this is not what will happen.

My primary objective for this is to get online streaming services, iradio and Tidal, sounding as good as they can without spending silly money. AQ carbon at 20m would no doubt be better, but too much cash for me. Obviously if there is no need to put a better cable between router and switch then that's money saved. The main hub, when I have a nas will be switch 2. Getting nice cables between nas, switch 2 and 272 won't be a problem. 

So all those people running posh Cisco switches are missing a trick! Like all Naim streamers, they have 100Mb ports.

ChrisSU posted:

So all those people running posh Cisco switches are missing a trick! Like all Naim streamers, they have 100Mb ports.

This was in response to Mike's post, which I guess he has now edited, as it has now jumped below mine!

ChrisSU posted:

So all those people running posh Cisco switches are missing a trick! Like all Naim streamers, they have 100Mb ports.

Chris I think I may have messed the post order as I just deleted my original post (timed out) to add a picture.    I did say 'low end hubs & switches'     Hubs especially I suspect as not managing data streams as a real switch & do not manage/address packets correctly & are unable to send & receive at the same time.  I also have concerns with some switches ability to maintain 100Mb/s across all ports simultaneously; my old Office/Study Netgear FS when all ports were working was markedly slower,  replacing it with a GS improved that aspect.

I had some time last night and so wired my switch 2 directly back to the router thereby bypassing switch 1. The difference to the sound from tidal.......... nothing, or if there was it was inaudible to me. I will try a separate run from router to switch 2 with ether the meicord or supra cable, still haven't decided which, but my gut feeeling it that the difference to the sound will be minimal if anything. If that's the case I'll still install the dedicated cable, just for peace of mind, and probably go for a decent cat6 from blue jeans.