Who Is Still Running Standard Naim Cables On 282/HCDR/250DR and Above

Same result here Ryder

I was gobsmacked when I replaced my Naim Standard Din/XLR with a Vertere cable.

 After some A/B I realised it's not that the vertere cable improves on the music, but it's just that the old XLR cable, does more damage to the signal than the Vertere one .... 

Very happy with my standard Naim wires in my set. I concede that my amps are less than those stipulated but I've put my money into decent Naim sources and speakers instead.

Christopher, notice you have a witeworld mains block, any good?

Very interesting note -- did you compare Naim standard cables with other aftermarket cables as well?

Cheers!

Gazza posted:

Christopher, notice you have a witeworld mains block, any good?

Been happy with it. I noticed an improvement over the cheap, cheerful extension block with the red light in that I had before. Felt the WireWorld Matrix quite good value. Hope that helps.

With the exception of NAC A5 (I tried Chord Signature but found it exchanged 'naturalness' for higher frequencies), I am using Chord Chorus Reference interconnects (RCA to DIN and DIN to XLR) throughout. I prefer the additional detail and haven't noticed any appreciable reduction in PRAT. The internal cable in my speakers (Kudos) is also apparently Chord so perhaps there is some additional synergy there.

Isnt it simply that low capacitance cables are better in carrying a signal? I remember something reading about Naim Active Leads instead of the stancdard Snaic which has a lower capacitance and therefore bring a purer signal from the Snaxo / pre to the Power Amp.

I think it's just that, and some extra shielding + a high price which makes a difference.

I might say something stupid here, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm here for fun and to learn something.

Ryder, 

The value of high quality cables cannot be underestimated.

We spend a small fortune on black boxes and connect them together with bog standard cables and interconnects.

The irony is the Black boxes we all have are capable of far more then we think........

Christopher_M posted:

Very happy with my standard Naim wires in my set. I concede that my amps are less than those stipulated but I've put my money into decent Naim sources and speakers instead.

That's a wise move. My impressions above are mainly on the 282/HCDR/250DR. Lesser amps such as the 202/HCDR/200 may not show the same results.

Wenger,

Yes, I am in agreement. I have never thought that this improvement is possible. It feels like I'm now having a new set of amps or speakers.

Just to reiterate - I am not promoting the Chord cables. I am just sharing my enthusiasm on the impact that these cables may bring to anyone's setup, especially if it's a 282/HCDR/250DR or the higher level 252-based systems. I've had the Chord Signature TA phono to DIN between my Chord QBD76 and NAC 282 last year and the difference wasn't really huge, though appreciable. With the full loom, or perhaps the cables that connect between the amps and power supplies, the difference is very obvious.

If anyone feels the separates system to sound a bit dull at the top and needs bit of high frequency extension, a richer tone to instruments and a wider and deeper soundstage, or a tauter cleaner and more defined bass and midrange, you have the option to look at the equipment, OR the cables. Particularly the cables that connect between the equipment.

DIN to XLR that connects the power supply to the power amp

*I also have the phono to DIN that connects the DAC to the preamp which completes the full loom

In my experience, the standard naim cables that connect between these equipment do not show the full potential of the system. It may be worthwhile to try some of the aftermarket cables if the gear is mid-level separates ie. 282 and above. One may not believe too much in cabling but the improvement with these cables is akin a box upgrade, in my experience.

Moderated Post:  I have edited your post.  Please note that discussion of 3rd party "SNAIC" substitutes is not allowed under forum rules as these constitute an unauthorised modification to Naim equipment.  Use of these leads may possibly invalidate your warranty should damage occur as a consequence of their use.

I am a great fan of TQ cables,  the improvements I have experienced can be described as night and day. I quite agree Chord or SL full looms will have the same effect. 

I think the problem many forum members have is the cost implications, eg if you need five or six metres x 2 of speaker cables it can be a considerable investment......  Hence many stick with Nac a5 or equivalent, which no doubt still does its job well.

But to really unlock the Black boxes, the equivalent investment is required. 

Yes, agreed. The Black boxes are really unlocked when the standard Naim cables go off. The true potential of the Black boxes is unleashed with some of these better cables.

I just cannot get past paying these sums for so little copper, silver or whatever it is. I feel I am at least getting some value when I pick up a 6 or 7 kg black box. Clever marketing, makes a SQ difference, so charge black box prices. Guess I would do the same if I knew how.

wenger2015 posted:

 

...  Hence many stick with Nac a5 or equivalent, which no doubt still does its job well. ...

Phew! If I had to replace all my nac a5 by SL, it would cost around GBP 20.000 which is getting close to a brand new 552.

its on my list for future upgrades,  i can home demo some leads from my dealer like your comments in your orginal post - I have been working on the black boxes 282/HCDR/300

but DR 300 will be next and then cables in think will bring most improvements

Or a nice motor car weighing a couple of tons of metal etc. But if people are happy to do this, and I know music gives myself and others a lot of pleasure, so be it. Probably would do the same if I was totally loaded.

Ardbeg10y posted:

wenger2015 posted:

 

...  Hence many stick with Nac a5 or equivalent, which no doubt still does its job well. ...

Phew! If I had to replace all my nac a5 by SL, it would cost around GBP 20.000 which is getting close to a brand new 552.

Completely understand,  it's difficult to justify the costs let alone afford them...equally true with black boxes 

ryder. posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Very happy with my standard Naim wires in my set. I concede that my amps are less than those stipulated but I've put my money into decent Naim sources and speakers instead.

That's a wise move. My impressions above are mainly on the 282/HCDR/250DR. Lesser amps such as the 202/HCDR/200 may not show the same results.

My Naim ambitions would be my record player and Naim sources into NAC252/ SCDR, NAP200 into my SBLs. Standard wires.

Gazza posted:

I just cannot get past paying these sums for so little copper, silver or whatever it is. I feel I am at least getting some value when I pick up a 6 or 7 kg black box. Clever marketing, makes a SQ difference, so charge black box prices. Guess I would do the same if I knew how.

That's certainly valid, exactly my thoughts as well when considering some of these costly cables. To be frank, I now consider the improvements with the full loom Chord STA to be equivalent to the 202 to 282 upgrade. It's that impressive. The proof is in the pudding. A demo will tell you whether these cables are worth it.

The Chord STA is just about the limit I would spend for cabling. The Sarum, as good as it can be is out of question for the reasons you cited (though it will fit well in a 500 series system).

antony d posted:

its on my list for future upgrades,  i can home demo some leads from my dealer like your comments in your orginal post - I have been working on the black boxes 282/HCDR/300

but DR 300 will be next and then cables in think will bring most improvements

 

 

If you have a dealer who can offer home demo, by all means go for it. I don't think you would be disappointed especially with your level of equipment.

I think the difference these wires can bring needs to be kept in perspective. It's easy for new owners to get very excited about their purchases and there is the potential to exaggerate the effect - it is certainly not the case that there is a 'night and day' difference. I have Super Lumina cables and think they are a great way to finish off a system and get the best from it. But in no way are they as significant as the boxes or the speakers and people using the bog standard wires should not for one second think they must have the new posh wires. Yes, some of them are good, but you can have music that is perfectly enjoyable without them. 

Christopher_M posted:

ryder. posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Very happy with my standard Naim wires in my set. I concede that my amps are less than those stipulated but I've put my money into decent Naim sources and speakers instead.

That's a wise move. My impressions above are mainly on the 282/HCDR/250DR. Lesser amps such as the 202/HCDR/200 may not show the same results.

My Naim ambitions would be my record player and Naim sources into NAC252/ SCDR, NAP200 into my SBLs. Standard wires.

Whatever floats your boat. I have shared my experience - the standard Naim wires are limiting the potential of the mid level separates system. 252/SCDR is good too.

Strangely I learnt the difference cables can make before most other hifi components when I innocently wandered into my local hifi emporium and was sent away with a trial of Chord Carnival Silver Screen speaker cable at £5/m to try over my bog standard copper wiring. The difference blew my head off, and as a result I've been well aware of the improvements (and detriments) cabling can have in a hifi system. 

I use TQ cables and they work extremely well with Naim gear. I have recently found that the mains cables do need to be matched to the right black boxes. On my SN/HCDR/250 my TQ ultra blue sounded brilliant on the HC with a TQ Black on the 250. Now I have a 272 the ultra blue has reduced the low end too much. I tried the powerline lite that came with the 272 and this did improve the low end extension but sounded a little bloated with a loss of some high frequency detail and a slightly shrunken soundstage. The ultra blue stays for now but will demo another black or Powerline to power at some point. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I think the difference these wires can bring needs to be kept in perspective. It's easy for new owners to get very excited about their purchases and there is the potential to exaggerate the effect - it is certainly not the case that there is a 'night and day' difference. I have Super Lumina cables and think they are a great way to finish off a system and get the best from it. But in no way are they as significant as the boxes or the speakers and people using the bog standard wires should not for one second think they must have the new posh wires. Yes, some of them are good, but you can have music that is perfectly enjoyable without them. 

You may have a point, but in my case it may be night and day because of the Harbeth loudspeakers that I use. When I say the difference with the cables is akin to an upgrade from the 202 to 282, I am certainly not exaggerating. My Harbeth loudspeakers came to life when the cables were added to the system. With other systems the differences may not be as remarkable.

Super Lumina is too costly for my system. The Chord STA at more down-to-earth prices delivers too.

* I have made numerous comparisons between the 202 and 282 in my system. The difference with the Chord STA is equally if not more remarkable.