Who Is Still Running Standard Naim Cables On 282/HCDR/250DR and Above

I was wondering, if the Mogami cable with Neutrik plugs significantly outperformed the standard Naim cables, why can't Naim supply these as standard since they are relatively cheap? The SNAIC costs £165. Looking at the cost breakdown by Huge, the finished Mogami would probably cost the same with workmanship included? Perhaps add few pounds to the overall cost of equipment so that folks don't need to consider aftermarket cables.

Is the SNAIC available in Super Lumina or Hiline versions? I don't see this in Naim's price list.

The answer to the last question is 'no'. 

ryder. posted:

.........

Moderated Post:  I have edited your post.  Please note that discussion of 3rd party "SNAIC" substitutes is not allowed under forum rules as these constitute an unauthorised modification to Naim equipment.  Use of these leads may possibly invalidate your warranty should damage occur as a consequence of their use.

 

Sorry Richard, I didn't know that 3rd party SNAIC is forbidden to be discussed on this forum.

Hungryhalibut posted:

The answer to the last question is 'no'. 

Thanks for the information.

If you don't need the power lead, the Naim Active Lead is having the lower capacitance than the standard Snaic and caries only signal. It probably gets closer to the more expensive cables despite being cheaper.

Just ask your dealer / distributor. It took me a while to explain them, but once they were in contact with the NAIM UK it was sorted quickly. I feared a waiting time of 3 months+, but it was all done in 2 weeks.

You probably get better result and stay within the Naim portfolio.

I can't report yet, the cables are on their way currently.

ryder. posted:

I was wondering, if the Mogami cable with Neutrik plugs significantly outperformed the standard Naim cables, why can't Naim supply these as standard since they are relatively cheap? The SNAIC costs £165. Looking at the cost breakdown by Huge, the finished Mogami would probably cost the same with workmanship included? Perhaps add few pounds to the overall cost of equipment so that folks don't need to consider aftermarket cables.

Is the SNAIC available in Super Lumina or Hiline versions? I don't see this in Naim's price list.

Neither Mogami cable will do for a SNAIC (W2549 doesn't have enough cores, and the cores on W2534 are too thin to carry the power well).

The workmanship on the cable arrangement I use for mu interconnects would be more expensive, as the construction technique is more complex and fiddly at the DIN end.

My setup is NDS, 555PS, 552 PS, 300 and I use the standard Naim cables : grey interconnect, NACA 5 and standard electrical wires. Not so bad, really !!

Ah, that's because you have no preamp or speakers - you can't hear how useless the standard leads really are...

He did not mention where he was using the standard Naim cables for.

I have a SL IC in my system. It was added not long after acquiring my 272/250 then xps dr. I have no idea if it has made a difference or not. I've been threatening to take the SL IC out to hear differences if any. However things are sounding very good and I'm a bit too lazy. I will get around to taking it out especially since I don't have SL SC as of now only NACA5. With the talk of full loom to get the best out of SL if I don't hear a difference I may part with the SL IC because of the high price of the SL SC. Not sure I'm wanting to invest that much more into this setup. Time will tell I guess. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Ah, that's because you have no preamp or speakers - you can't hear how useless the standard leads really are...

Sorry, 552 DR and standard leads of course, forgive my english

ryder. posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I think the difference these wires can bring needs to be kept in perspective. It's easy for new owners to get very excited about their purchases and there is the potential to exaggerate the effect - it is certainly not the case that there is a 'night and day' difference. I have Super Lumina cables and think they are a great way to finish off a system and get the best from it. But in no way are they as significant as the boxes or the speakers and people using the bog standard wires should not for one second think they must have the new posh wires. Yes, some of them are good, but you can have music that is perfectly enjoyable without them. 

You may have a point, but in my case it may be night and day because of the Harbeth loudspeakers that I use. When I say the difference with the cables is akin to an upgrade from the 202 to 282, I am certainly not exaggerating. My Harbeth loudspeakers came to life when the cables were added to the system. With other systems the differences may not be as remarkable.

Super Lumina is too costly for my system. The Chord STA at more down-to-earth prices delivers too.

* I have made numerous comparisons between the 202 and 282 in my system. The difference with the Chord STA is equally if not more remarkable.

I retract my statement about the difference of the Chord STA being equal to the 202 to 282 upgrade. I have rerun the comparison (detailed impressions on the other forum). On a scale of 1 to 5, the difference between the 202 to 282 is at 5 while the difference between the standard Naim and full loom Chord STA is at 3 to 4. Still a good difference.

Yes, I agree that music can still sound enjoyable with the standard Naim cables but they still lack the articulation, energy and extension of the full loom Chord in my system. I may be overly enthusiastic with the Chord and have gone overboard with my remark about the standard Naim cables sounding dull and uninspiring, and I apologise for this.

that's ok, Ryder, I don't find the standard DIN/XLR very good compared to Superlumina DIN/XLR, and I don't like NACA5 compared to SL either and I don't apologise for that 

I do like the Naim Lavender DIN cable though...

analogmusic posted:

that's ok, Ryder, I don't find the standard DIN/XLR very good compared to Superlumina DIN/XLR, and I don't like NACA5 compared to SL either and I don't apologise for that 

I do like the Naim Lavender DIN cable though...

for me the standard cables are just fine. Speaker placement and acoustics make huge difference. If the last is fine cables etc. hardly make any difference. Running in is a mith. There is NO theoretical explanation why cables sound better after a while of use. From day one the electrical conductivity from A to B is exactly the same as after 600 hours of burning in. So bullocks!

Funny thing, I remember way back in 2014/2015 the 500 Club was rocking standard Naim Cables and NAC A5.

However, things have changed, and Naim realized, they had to get on board.

Reference Interconnects, and Speaker Cables has made massive improvements within the last 10 years. 

The trickled down technologies of todays Reference Cables, are comparable to the reference Cables of yesterday!

Naim introduced the SL technologies specifically for the Statement, but equally at home, with the Classic & 500 series.

Naim's Hi-line may have been an improvement over Naim's Lavender, but how would it measure up to Chords Shawline, Epic, Indigo, not to mention Chords Taylon!

ST, or Music anyone!

Just saying, no hands on experience, I'm still rocking Standard Naim Interconnects and Linn K-20/ Nac A4!

JMHO

Based on Articles and the Naim Forum!

Allante93!

PS. Cdx2>282>HCDR>3 x 250>Fraimlite

 TRI-AMPED BRIKS!

For decades we have all had broken systems until these fancy cables emerged, oh well still running NACA5 and supplied IEC leads.

I guess most of these fancy cables give more in one direction but also take something away.

Regarding speaker cables, one perhaps should consider to remove the passive crossover from speakers before changing the NACA5 to something more expensive. 

Because if one thinks that the system holds back, sounds restrained or choked or muddled, the cause might be the passive crossover and not the NACA5. At least that's my experience.

It might also make sense economically: S/h Snaxo, Hicap DR and a s/h 200 cost me as much as 5m of SL would have.

You can't imagine how good the standard naim cables are.

jfritzen posted:

Regarding speaker cables, one perhaps should consider to remove the passive crossover from speakers before changing the NACA5 to something more expensive. 

Because if one thinks that the system holds back, sounds restrained or choked or muddled, the cause might be the passive crossover and not the NACA5. At least that's my experience.

It might also make sense economically: S/h Snaxo, Hicap DR and a s/h 200 cost me as much as 5m of SL would have.

 

Stop it, that makes to much darn sense! 

And then the Vertere Guy:

The  Final Link!

You must be an Active Fan!

Allante93!

There's no honor in being right, but Yep!

Snaxo 242, what's your thoughts on the SC/Burndy>Snaxo?

Robiwan posted:

for me the standard cables are just fine. Speaker placement and acoustics make huge difference. If the last is fine cables etc. hardly make any difference. Running in is a mith. There is NO theoretical explanation why cables sound better after a while of use. From day one the electrical conductivity from A to B is exactly the same as after 600 hours of burning in. So bullocks!

I can honestly say that burn in of both boxes and cables does exist.  If I'd have made decisions on hifi purchases in the first few minutes of unboxing something I doubt I'd own much hifi at all. My dealer has given me 2 months to try my 272 as he's well aware of how different it will be compared to box fresh. After all, if burn in didn't exist he could have picked it up the next day. And if burn in didn't exist, I'd have let him take it too as it didn't sound as great as it does now. 

My thinking is that just because we don't understand something and can't measure something YET, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

Now don't forget, this is our hobby, and this is what we do:

Spend Thousands of Dollars for subtle differences, that aren't detectable by the norm!

But remember, we aren't the Norm! LOL....

Allante93!

PS.

For the money, if it ain't a 272, it just won't do!

272 vs 552, Blind A-B Test!

Just Saying!

At last, the emergence of the Luxe cable refuseniks! Where were you when your forum needed you?!

to a certain extent I have a LOT of respect for the what Naim stands for. They didn't waste their time on things that are not worth it, all was done in the quest for more engagement, PRAT, boogie, call it what whatever Naim you want. They know what they are doing.

Much respect to Naim.

I must say I am surprised by the ' it makes no difference' club.

Burn in doesn't happen,  standard  cables are just fine...ect ect ect

I assume the earth is actually flat and no one actually went to the moon???

Dare I say most from the ' it makes no difference club'......have not even tried an alternative??? 

....Who's prepared to own up and come clean???