Who Is Still Running Standard Naim Cables On 282/HCDR/250DR and Above

Finkfan posted:

Robiwan posted:

for me the standard cables are just fine. Speaker placement and acoustics make huge difference. If the last is fine cables etc. hardly make any difference. Running in is a mith. There is NO theoretical explanation why cables sound better after a while of use. From day one the electrical conductivity from A to B is exactly the same as after 600 hours of burning in. So bullocks!

I can honestly say that burn in of both boxes and cables does exist.  If I'd have made decisions on hifi purchases in the first few minutes of unboxing something I doubt I'd own much hifi at all. My dealer has given me 2 months to try my 272 as he's well aware of how different it will be compared to box fresh. After all, if burn in didn't exist he could have picked it up the next day. And if burn in didn't exist, I'd have let him take it too as it didn't sound as great as it does now. 

My thinking is that just because we don't understand something and can't measure something YET, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

well maybe he was shure you ll get used during time. and maybe so it happend,who knows

The brand new 272 didn't sound at all like I'd heard before at the dealers and at Naims Bristol show demo. It was a bit flat, dull, closed in and very very different to the SN it replaced. Now It has truly come to life. Like I said before If id only been given 24 hours to make my decision on every box, I wouldn't have paid out for any of them. I guess the only way for non believers to hear it is to do a side by side with a brand new box or cable compared to their well run in ones and hear the difference. If you can't, so be it. That's ok. But I sure can. 

OK my experience of "Burn In"...

272, from new...    1 week: some definite improvement but marginal rather than dramatic.  2 months:  considerable improvement
300DR s/h (but not used for a while)...     1 week: some definite improvement - quite significant.  2 months no more improvement
555PSDR s/h (unknown storage time)...      1 week: some definite improvement but marginal rather than dramatic.  2 months no more improvement
Mogami 2594 interconnect, from new...      Some improvement in the first few hours, nothing after that
DNM Resolution speaker cable, from new...      No changes detected.

leni v posted:

Finkfan posted:

Robiwan posted:

for me the standard cables are just fine. Speaker placement and acoustics make huge difference. If the last is fine cables etc. hardly make any difference. Running in is a mith. There is NO theoretical explanation why cables sound better after a while of use. From day one the electrical conductivity from A to B is exactly the same as after 600 hours of burning in. So bullocks!

I can honestly say that burn in of both boxes and cables does exist.  If I'd have made decisions on hifi purchases in the first few minutes of unboxing something I doubt I'd own much hifi at all. My dealer has given me 2 months to try my 272 as he's well aware of how different it will be compared to box fresh. After all, if burn in didn't exist he could have picked it up the next day. And if burn in didn't exist, I'd have let him take it too as it didn't sound as great as it does now. 

My thinking is that just because we don't understand something and can't measure something YET, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

well maybe he was shure you ll get used during time. and maybe so it happend,who knows

That lame old excuse. The easiest way to demonstrate the effect of burn in is to compare a burned in version to a brand new one. Try it.

jfritzen posted:

Regarding speaker cables, one perhaps should consider to remove the passive crossover from speakers before changing the NACA5 to something more expensive. 

Because if one thinks that the system holds back, sounds restrained or choked or muddled, the cause might be the passive crossover and not the NACA5. At least that's my experience.

It might also make sense economically: S/h Snaxo, Hicap DR and a s/h 200 cost me as much as 5m of SL would have.

 

Very good point.

no it's not. Without passive crossover you kill the tweeter.

My 272 sounded great,from brand new.Maybe it improved 5%,after a year,if I had to put a number on it.I still think upgrading to a 300dr,from a 250dr is money better spent,than investing in fancy cables,

Christopher_M posted:

At last, the emergence of the Luxe cable refuseniks! Where were you when your forum needed you?!

Different Culture, thought Naim came out with some new Speaker Cable, Refuseniks!

Strange Naim, one who refuses/protest!

Personally, I'm not from that camp, I'm from the Final Link Camp!

After reading that article, Why do we need better Cables, I get it!

But only, after one has met his end game System!

Fraimlite>Xps>272>250>Speakers

Great, then see, the difference the Final link can bring to the Party!

Lavender vs Epic, Indigo, etc..Loom!

That's just my take!

I,ve already picked my Loom!

282 Active Briks, Chord Loom!

2 years from now, when the price has decreased, due to the new technologies!

ST Loom with Chord's old Signature Speaker Cable!

That Speaker Cable, really looks nice, I've always wondered how it sounds!

Chord just seems like a natural fit, with Naim.

Thought I read, they actually use to supply Naim's Cabling!

Today, Tri-Amp Briks

2018, Active Briks

2021, The Loom!

Allante93!

I am,

IMO one of the main advantages of owning an all-Naim system is not having to spend countless hours wondering and experimenting with exotic cables, it plays wonderfully as it is.

Claude

NFG posted:

jfritzen posted:

Regarding speaker cables, one perhaps should consider to remove the passive crossover from speakers before changing the NACA5 to something more expensive. 

Because if one thinks that the system holds back, sounds restrained or choked or muddled, the cause might be the passive crossover and not the NACA5. At least that's my experience.

It might also make sense economically: S/h Snaxo, Hicap DR and a s/h 200 cost me as much as 5m of SL would have.

 

Very good point.

+2

No quarter posted:

My 272 sounded great,from brand new.Maybe it improved 5%,after a year,if I had to put a number on it.I still think upgrading to a 300dr,from a 250dr is money better spent,than investing in fancy cables,

I upgraded from a 250dr to the 300dr, fortunately I have an exceptionally good dealer who allowed me about 4/5weeks to do an AB comparison, after which I did the upgrade.

After this I experimented with cables,  demoing most of the TQ range and SL, my conclusion was the cables do make an significant difference. 

Maybe a few years ago that may not have been the case but technology moves on...

The only problem with some cables is getting ones head around the cost, especially if a number of metres are required.... 

My advice would be only try, if you can afford to buy, because you will not want to send them back, which is exactly what happened when I demoed the 300dr...

My NDS/552 connection is SL, otherwise all other cables are standard.

The only non-Naim cable I use is an Auditorium 23 RCA from turntable to Superline.

Robiwan posted:

for me the standard cables are just fine. Speaker placement and acoustics make huge difference. If the last is fine cables etc. hardly make any difference. Running in is a mith. There is NO theoretical explanation why cables sound better after a while of use. From day one the electrical conductivity from A to B is exactly the same as after 600 hours of burning in. So bullocks!

I admit to being very confused. How do you make a definitive judgement without a proper A/B comparison in your own system at home and what do young bulls have to do with anything?

The starting assumption that cables all sound the same is reasonable, until you hear that they don't. The hard part is deciding if the gains out weigh the losses of any change, that takes time and the result of that doesn't necessarily hold when you make other system changes so the my default cables stay put until I consider the rest of the system finished given the cost of likely alternatives.

nigelb posted:

Robiwan posted:

for me the standard cables are just fine. Speaker placement and acoustics make huge difference. If the last is fine cables etc. hardly make any difference. Running in is a mith. There is NO theoretical explanation why cables sound better after a while of use. From day one the electrical conductivity from A to B is exactly the same as after 600 hours of burning in. So bullocks!

I admit to being very confused. How do you make a definitive judgement without a proper A/B comparison in your own system at home and what do young bulls have to do with anything?

Most what is posted here on this forum is young bulls. 

After reading this thread I put back my standard Naim DIn/XLR and NAC A5 and my system, modest as it is against many here, just took a real 'dive' in performance - more congested and a much narrower field of both depth/width. Also, bass lacked a 'natural' depth with a more pronounced lower mid hump. Kept as is for the whole of yesterday but this morning put back in my SL IC/SC and every part of performance was lifted back to the 'rightness' I have grown accustomed to.

All I can say is that the difference in my system and room, with my ears, is not subtle.

Nac52/Supercap/nap300. Standard inter connects and Naca5. Sounds fine to me.

I am still running NACA5 with my 552DR / 300DR system - I suspect that it will remain for some time yet.

I was tempted by the Super Lumina speaker cables when they were being offered at a heavily discounted price but just couldn't bring myself to actually do it. Maybe I am just too used to what the NACA5 does, but ultimately I chose for it to remain.

All standard here too except for one Chord I/c. I do not deny they make a difference, and possibly improvement but have never considered them good value for money. My little system sounds great to me just as it is.

Stu

Premmyboy posted:

Nac52/Supercap/nap300. Standard inter connects and Naca5. Sounds fine to me.

they sound fine to me too, but that is until you hear Superlumina.

for me personally a vertere DIN/XLR was much superior to the old Naim interconnect....

analogmusic posted:

Premmyboy posted:

Nac52/Supercap/nap300. Standard inter connects and Naca5. Sounds fine to me.

they sound fine to me too, but that is until you hear Superlumina.

for me personally a vertere DIN/XLR was much superior to the old Naim interconnect....

That's sums it up perfectly, it does sound fine....but it could sound even better...

wenger2015 posted:

No quarter posted:

My 272 sounded great,from brand new.Maybe it improved 5%,after a year,if I had to put a number on it.I still think upgrading to a 300dr,from a 250dr is money better spent,than investing in fancy cables,

I upgraded from a 250dr to the 300dr, fortunately I have an exceptionally good dealer who allowed me about 4/5weeks to do an AB comparison, after which I did the upgrade.

After this I experimented with cables,  demoing most of the TQ range and SL, my conclusion was the cables do make an significant difference. 

Maybe a few years ago that may not have been the case but technology moves on...

The only problem with some cables is getting ones head around the cost, especially if a number of metres are required.... 

My advice would be only try, if you can afford to buy, because you will not want to send them back, which is exactly what happened when I demoed the 300dr...

 

In my case,your's too I guess,going from the standard Naim din to XLR to SL din to XLR and Superlumina speaker cables would cost around the same(I am guessing) as upgrading my 250 dr to a 300dr.The question is,which one is the better upgrade,no way for me to demo either one really...the 300dr would be an end game for me, I Can't afford a 500.The 250 dr might be all I really need to run my incoming Dynaudio special 40's,so maybe SL cables is the better route?

No quarter posted:

wenger2015 posted:

No quarter posted:

My 272 sounded great,from brand new.Maybe it improved 5%,after a year,if I had to put a number on it.I still think upgrading to a 300dr,from a 250dr is money better spent,than investing in fancy cables,

I upgraded from a 250dr to the 300dr, fortunately I have an exceptionally good dealer who allowed me about 4/5weeks to do an AB comparison, after which I did the upgrade.

After this I experimented with cables,  demoing most of the TQ range and SL, my conclusion was the cables do make an significant difference. 

Maybe a few years ago that may not have been the case but technology moves on...

The only problem with some cables is getting ones head around the cost, especially if a number of metres are required.... 

My advice would be only try, if you can afford to buy, because you will not want to send them back, which is exactly what happened when I demoed the 300dr...

 

In my case,your's too I guess,going from the standard Naim din to XLR to SL din to XLR and Superlumina speaker cables would cost around the same(I am guessing) as upgrading my 250 dr to a 300dr.The question is,which one is the better upgrade,no way for me to demo either one really...the 300dr would be an end game for me, I Can't afford a 500.The 250 dr might be all I really need to run my incoming Dynaudio special 40's,so maybe SL cables is the better route?

If you are unable to demo, then I would suggest go for the cables,  the improvements gained are vast, and it may well be your end game.

Their are deals to be had, so I would speak to your dealer and haggle hard.....

wenger2015 posted:

analogmusic posted:

Premmyboy posted:

Nac52/Supercap/nap300. Standard inter connects and Naca5. Sounds fine to me.

they sound fine to me too, but that is until you hear Superlumina.

for me personally a vertere DIN/XLR was much superior to the old Naim interconnect....

That's sums it up perfectly, it does sound fine....but it could sound even better...

I don't doubt that. Can't afford Super lumina. Any money I can save will be spent on servicing& possibly upgrading nap300 to dr and maybe sometime in the future some new speakers.

ryder. posted:

Sorry but I have to post this. I just figured out that the standard Naim cables have been severely limiting the full potential of my system all this while - the 282/HCDR/250DR. I have posted my thoughts on the improvements with these cables on another forum (Chord Signature Tuned Aray full loom) and got accused of running an advertisement for Chord apart from a slew of negative comments and cynicism. Folks can say whatever they like though I have to say I am gobsmacked with the changes that these cables have brought to the system. I do not have any affiliation with Chord or any other cable companies. People can buy whatever they like whether it's Naim Superlumina, Vertere, Tellurium or WitchHat, whatever. The point that I want to make here is the standard Naim cables are not very good.. sorry.

I'll just keep this short and won't go into detail. Initially I was suspecting there is something that's still not quite right with my system. I keep reading remarks about the high frequency extension on Naim gear to be rolled off. It was said to be a trait of Naim. I actually experienced this as well but did not suspect the Naim amps to be the culprit. Instead, I had taken for granted that my Harbeth loudspeakers are smooth sounding speakers and a bit rolled off in the highs. I also suspected that my Chord QBD 76 DAC may not be too extended in the treble. All that perception changed when the standard Naim cables were replaced by some aftermarket cables.

The difference was remarkable. It's big enough to warrant a night and day difference, in my opinion. Even though the cables are not fully run in, the improvements are marked. The tone of the piano between the standard Naim and Chord is completely different. With the standard Naim cable, piano sounds a bit dull and rolled off. I have to occasionally turn the volume up to get the energy of the notes. With the Chord, piano sounds very lively and extended. The energy is incredible. It's the same with other instruments such as guitars and saxophone etc., improvements in energy, tonal quality and colour but the most apparent change to me is with piano.

Other improvements are in macrodynamics and articulation. There is reduced smearing as everything sounds more in focus. Improved refinement in the delivery of music as well.

For those who are still on the standard Naim cables with the 282/HCDR/250DR (or perhaps the 202/HCDR/200 as well), I would recommend that you look at the cables if looking for an upgrade. It doesn't need to be a Chord but something else. If it's the Chord Signature Tuned Aray, chances are you will likely be pleased with the results.

I use the atlas mavros from cdx2 to supernait and the difference is huge night and day atlas cable cost 750 but once you hear it their is no going back to standard naim cables