NDS vs DAVE

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Hi all, just wanted to get some input regarding DAVE and how it compares to NDS (with 2*555PS) if any of you have that?

My NDS is probably + 4 years now (maybe 5?) and "could be" kind of the weak link for now (guessing here). 

Not really in an upgrade mood, more curious...(and that's how it normally starts :-)...)

//Jonas

there were already these topics : go to " search" part on this forum, " nds vs dave".  I will just say that new is not always better. I have the nds too, with one 555dr.  Perhaps, if one day, probably not too long, naim produce the nds2, i will think to upgrade ( if really better).

Chord dave have not streaming capabilities, so you will have to connect it to a melco or aurender....or eventually to your nds, but nobody had done it on the forum....

Thank you, just wanted to get some input. Already have a Melco though. 

//Jonas

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Hi all, just wanted to get some input regarding DAVE and how it compares to NDS (with 2*555PS) if any of you have that?

My NDS is probably + 4 years now (maybe 5?) and "could be" kind of the weak link for now (guessing here). 

Not really in an upgrade mood, more curious...(and that's how it normally starts :-)...)

//Jonas

Hi Jonas, I have listened and enjoyed the NDS, DAVE and Hugo mk1 as well as NDAC/555PS as well HugoTT.

My preference has been Hugo mk1, NDAC/555PS, NDS, HugoTT, DAVE in descending order, although all incredibly enjoyable

There is big difference in presentation between NDAC and the others, and ultimately not as insightful as the others but it does boogie so I rank it high on the fun stakes.... I found DAVE ultimately relatively uninvolving compared to the others to my tastes... yet to hear my Hugo mk1 significantly bettered, although I have to say not all Hugo's sound the same... I suspect you get better consistency with the Naim devices and DAVE.

Oh yes on the Hugo, NDAC and HugoTT DACs used SPDIF from a Naim transport, the NDX. With DAVE I listened and enjoyed  using a Melco via USB. I have not heard DAVE with SPDIF, so that might improve things for my ears.

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Thank you, just wanted to get some input. Already have a Melco though. 

//Jonas

try to borrow a dave and connect it to your melco in usb, if you can borrow....From what i read the nds have more prat, the melco/dave more details and more softness. But some find the dave a little harsh too sometimes... so where is the truth? Some added also the dcs debussy dac to the nds and found an important improvement.

The dcs bridge is perhaps the most recent product in streaming, you can add it to a dave or another dac.  I prefer personally to wait for the nds 2.

the weiss streaming / dac , around 20k, is the most recent ( weiss medus dac/ review by jason kennedy, hifi news, on google).  Jason Kennedy found it astonishing....

One thing about the Dave the phase setting should be on positive.

Also if comparing with NDS, make sure the ground switch on NDS is set to floating, as Dave has signal earth connected to mains earth (unless all previous Chord DACs)

I have owned Mojo, Hugo 1, and Dave, and easily my preference is

Dave - Best

Hugo 1 - (I sold it)

Mojo. sounds boring next to Dave.

When comparing Dave and Hugo TT (twice, in two separate systems), Dave was easily showing it is better.

I found Dave sounds quite different to the lesser brethren, in that it is a lot more refined than other digital sources - but at the same time has all the speed, and dynamics.

It is easy to hear the refinement and mistake that for a lack of dynamics, but it is still there and then a lot more !

The soundstage is much bigger than Hugo 1, and also there is more music extracted, particularly bass definition. 

Dave has a 20 element pulse Array DAC, whereas Hugo 1 has 4, so obviously Chord aren't going to give their premium technology for only 1400 GBP.

Hugo 1 sounds quite crude to me compared to Dave. On one song - breathe 2am - Anna Nalick, Dave is able to render the singer as if live in front of me, with Hugo, there is a crudeness and grain introduced in her voice, once that is heard, very hard to un-hear it - sounds more like a recording than her singing live  and hence Hugo 1 was sold.

Dave to my ears sounds the closest real music than I ever heard before.

The main feature of Chord Dac (whether Hugo or Dave) is the fluidity of the music, it just flows like live music. I would also say it's like a time machine - it takes you back to the place where the recording took place and makes no attempt to have a sound of it's own.

Oh and Mojo to my ears is an improvement on Hugo 1 and Hugo TT, it doesn't have the crudeness and grain issues in vocals I can hear with Hugo1 and TT.

I think maybe Rob Watts has admitted this somewhere on head - fi. he said the reason Hugo 1 sounds brighter than mojo is because of Noise floor modulation - Hugo 1 got more of it than Mojo...  in simple english, Hugo 1 got more "hiss" on headphones than Mojo.

Anyway - we all like what we like, whether Hugo 1, QBD76, NDS, KDS, whatever makes one happy. I can only report what I heard and understand. One can add Naim amps to this list, and their signature sound based on the NACA 5 cable.

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Hi all, just wanted to get some input regarding DAVE and how it compares to NDS (with 2*555PS) if any of you have that?

My NDS is probably + 4 years now (maybe 5?) and "could be" kind of the weak link for now (guessing here). 

Not really in an upgrade mood, more curious...(and that's how it normally starts :-)...)

//Jonas

Jonas, have you heard a Klimax DS3?

might be of interest.

The NDS produces the best sound I have yet heard from a post-CD source.
If you like detailed sound that is devoid of colouration go for the Chord, but if you like the naim-ness rich sound stick with the NDS.

erm.... to add some Naim flavour back to Dave or Hugo, I found that one simply needs to use a Naim or Chord Interconnect. Job done.

I don't think anyone other than Chord makes a 3.5mm to DIN cable, so I use a Chord clearway between betwixt my Chord Mojo and 202, and compared to a generic cable from eBay, the clearway gets the foot tapping.

Martin.L posted:

The NDS produces the best sound I have yet heard from a post-CD source.
If you like detailed sound that is devoid of colouration go for the Chord, but if you like the naim-ness rich sound stick with the NDS.

Please clarify: is that assessment including having heard Dave In the same system, In cluding preamp?

Interesting observation re the NDS being coloured - I had thought the 'Naim sound' came primarily from the pre-amp.

Strangely I can get that "naim sound" (foot tapping, boogie, engaging)  in my car with no Naim component, but with Chord Mojo and Chord Clearway interconnects. 

Life is full of strange and unexplained things.

But then Naim do say their sound doesn't only come from the black boxes, there is a lot of effort, thought and research into the cables that actually connect the boxes !

So is there really a Naim sound, or it just the sound of proper engineering making music sound engaging.... ???

I have heard something similar to Naim sound from Linn boxes and cables too.....

Now all these companies are from the UK. And maybe they all share an understanding of what makes hi-fi really great?

something about preserving the rhythm..... 

New naim streamer is coming... also dave+blu2 is interesting...

Wait and see 

analogmusic posted:

 

I don't think anyone other than Chord makes a 3.5mm to DIN cable, so I use a Chord clearway between betwixt my Chord Mojo and 202, and compared to a generic cable from eBay, the clearway gets the foot tapping.

Flashback - 3.5mm Mini Jack Plug - Naim Style 5 Pin Latching DIN Plug Performance Cable.

Excellent cable, especially if you want to keep the Naim sound.

Emre: When? 

��

//Jonas

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Emre: When? 

��

//Jonas

nobody knows for naim.  chord blue 2 is already produced.

French Rooster posted:

Jonas Olofsson posted:

Thank you, just wanted to get some input. Already have a Melco though. 

//Jonas

try to borrow a dave and connect it to your melco in usb, if you can borrow....From what i read the nds have more prat, the melco/dave more details and more softness. But some find the dave a little harsh too sometimes... so where is the truth? Some added also the dcs debussy dac to the nds and found an important improvement.

The dcs bridge is perhaps the most recent product in streaming, you can add it to a dave or another dac.  I prefer personally to wait for the nds 2.

the weiss streaming / dac , around 20k, is the most recent ( weiss medus dac/ review by jason kennedy, hifi news, on google).  Jason Kennedy found it astonishing....

NDS 2? Do you know something we don't? How long do we need to wait?

So many questions and so few answers! 

hey NigelB,

nds2 or new nds...i don't know the name of the next nds...but there is no reason to not appear...in one year ot two, or few months.  In general, every 6/7 years there is a new product in the range, like cds, cds2 and cds3 before, for example.  Only hypothesis of mine.

Waiting's a lot easier if digital has always been a second source.

yeti42 posted:

Waiting's a lot easier if digital has always been a second source.

How does that make any difference, unless you don't have a streamer at all? If you have a steamer you can play the same music today as yesterday, whether it is an ND5 or NDS, or anything else, even if you have the funds and NDS2 is announced but not yet available, and any wait for NDS2 makes no difference to your playing or enjoyment whether your preferred choice is analogue or the digital!

I have a 500 series dr system but listen mainly to vinyl from Artemis/Schröder Reference/Proteus. I also have music on a Core but after a few audioions decided I could live with a Rega DAC (as long as it was fed via a Belden 4794R rather than any of the Chords I tried) and await developments in the light of the new Unitis. If digital was my main source I'd be comparing Dave to NDS to whatever else I could audition but as it is the cheap and cheerful Rega, though lacking much depth to the soundstage and skipping over some of the detail I heard through a Chord DAC gives a full bodied very musically and emotionally satisfying performance that will do for the time being. 

analogmusic posted:

Oh and Mojo to my ears is an improvement on Hugo 1 and Hugo TT, it doesn't have the crudeness and grain issues in vocals I can hear with Hugo1 and TT.

I think maybe Rob Watts has admitted this somewhere on head - fi. he said the reason Hugo 1 sounds brighter than mojo is because of Noise floor modulation - Hugo 1 got more of it than Mojo...  in simple english, Hugo 1 got more "hiss" on headphones than Mojo.

Anyway - we all like what we like, whether Hugo 1, QBD76, NDS, KDS, whatever makes one happy. I can only report what I heard and understand. One can add Naim amps to this list, and their signature sound based on the NACA 5 cable.

In my experience Hugo 1 needed good isolation from a computer source (I used a Gustard U12), and not a direct USB connection, though the extent of any RF contamination of the signal would depend on the actual source, and probably other things connected to it, so the severity of effect undoubtedly varies. 

A new digital source replacing cd555 is a strong rumor,  only god knows when speciallly after the delays of new line 

I am waiting for to hear blu2-dave.... ıt sounds like an interneting product since it have cd but not streamer

I have no special insight as to Naim's future plans, but I surmise that they will 

A. Bring out a new streamer/s

B. Reduce their CD range further, and perhaps just offer a single transport/basic dac to continue a full product line.

Reasons for this are as much to do with economics as with the pursuit of excellence. 

If you take the idea of source first to it's logical conclusion then it's really recording file from recording studio - into your preamp. So given where we are now that's currently digital file - dac/pre amp style tech. Once we get that right why introduce any additional steps / transmutations? But note that I say once we, (in the collective sense), get it right.

Linn and Naim both record music, lucky for us. And full digital tranfer is where smaller companies can shine. CD players and TT will become legacy product and harder to support.

oscarskeeper posted:

Jonas, have you heard a Klimax DS3?

might be of interest.

++1

It is the best there is today.  I have lived with every incarnation.  The KDS3 (which is actually the 4th iteration) is a quantum leap.  Previously the jump from KDS/0 to KDS/1 was the largest of the group.  Now the move from KDS/2 to KDS/3 excels that.

Control points are robust with LUMIN as a nice third party option.  Linn have finally reached an agreement with ROON and implementation is under way.  Some of us are using a 3rd party "box" to implement ROON integration on a temporary basis while we wait for the official version.

ROON is a dramatic development in control point software.  It has to be experienced to understand what it is capable of.

You owe it to yourself to have a listen.

With a DAVE, listening to music at home becomes an experience of the first order, to put alongside going to a concert. It takes your music somewhere else, somewhere you naively thought you'd get to easily all those years ago when your bought your first hi-fi, but you never got remotely close to after the initial thrill wore off,  nor did you every time you upgraded it since.  DAVE is music.