I'm about to celebrate Dave's Birthday, and I have to say I'm continually getting the thrill of initial hearing from him. While the Hugo might just be the best bang-per-buck I've ever bought, Dave is the best (if pricey).

 And, of course, your mileage may vary

glevethan posted:

oscarskeeper posted:

Jonas, have you heard a Klimax DS3?

might be of interest.

++1

It is the best there is today.  I have lived with every incarnation.  The KDS3 (which is actually the 4th iteration) is a quantum leap.  Previously the jump from KDS/0 to KDS/1 was the largest of the group.  Now the move from KDS/2 to KDS/3 excels that.

Control points are robust with LUMIN as a nice third party option.  Linn have finally reached an agreement with ROON and implementation is under way.  Some of us are using a 3rd party "box" to implement ROON integration on a temporary basis while we wait for the official version.

ROON is a dramatic development in control point software.  It has to be experienced to understand what it is capable of.

You owe it to yourself to have a listen.

I certainly found the step up from KDS/0 to KDS/1 to be huge. If the step-up from DS/1 to DS/3 has anything like the same effect, I may just have to bite the bullet and upgrade in the not too distant future. The only problem is that it's next to impossible to obtain an audition/comparison prior to committing to the upgrade. 

However, I personally do not like LUMIN as a control point. I use it with my Sonore microRendu/Hugo setup in a 2nd system, but much prefer Kazoo for Windows and use that with my KDS/1. Roon is something I find it hard to envisage without a demo, and of course it is fairly pricey, so I will have to be persuaded if I am to make the leap of faith to use it. I guess if there is a trial period when it is integrated into the Linn streamers, I may just give it a try, although I really can't envisage just what it would offer me in order to justify its cost.  

I agree that an audition of a KDS/3 might prove to be quite interesting.

My microRendu/Hugo set up is great value for money, but my KDS/1 is simply much better to my ears. This is not something I would have stated when I had my DS/0, but the DS/1 provides a very much more powerful, rhythmic and lively presentation without compromising on subtlety and intricate detail than that of the microRendu/Hugo. My old DS/0, while still pretty good, sounded a little flat and sterile by comparison. 

The KDS/3 is likely to be pretty spectacular, and may just suit your taste. Have a listen if you can, Jonas.  

The NDS transcends music. It is not like being there in fact if you close your eyes you are there!

You can't even get up to leave the room because it would be rude to the performer to do so. You have to plan in advance to make a brew.

It is better than the best there is today and probably next week as well.

Hmack

If you already have a Sonore MicroRendu you can give ROON a try as the Sonore is ROON capable. 

ROON offer a 30 day trial

Hmack posted:

glevethan posted:

 

Hmack, you have the kds 0 and kds 2, why not sell both and have a kds 3?  just curiosity....

 

Jonn posted:

The NDS transcends music. It is not like being there in fact if you close your eyes you are there!

You can't even get up to leave the room because it would be rude to the performer to do so. You have to plan in advance to make a brew.

It is better than the best there is today and probably next week as well.

 

That sounds like a description of Dave!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Jonn posted:

The NDS transcends music. It is not like being there in fact if you close your eyes you are there!

You can't even get up to leave the room because it would be rude to the performer to do so. You have to plan in advance to make a brew.

It is better than the best there is today and probably next week as well.

 

That sounds like a description of Dave!

Actually Dave was always out of his head when we went to concerts so although he was there physically, mentally he was on another planet.

glevethan posted:

Hmack

If you already have a Sonore MicroRendu you can give ROON a try as the Sonore is ROON capable. 

ROON offer a 30 day trial

Thanks Glevethan, although I suspect that getting Roon up and running will be easier with the Linn, so I'll probably wait until Linn's integration is complete. 

French Rooster posted:

Hmack posted:

glevethan posted:

 

Hmack, you have the kds 0 and kds 2, why not sell both and have a kds 3?  just curiosity....

 

French Rooster, 

I sold my (Renew) KDS/0 to help fund the purchase of my Klimax KDS/1, so I only have the KDS/1. I believe that an upgrade to KDS/3 currently costs around £4,600, so it's not a particularly cheap upgrade. I really would like to compare the two first. 

Hmack posted:

glevethan posted:

Hmack

If you already have a Sonore MicroRendu you can give ROON a try as the Sonore is ROON capable. 

ROON offer a 30 day trial

Thanks Glevethan, although I suspect that getting Roon up and running will be easier with the Linn, so I'll probably wait until Linn's integration is complete. 

Actually there is nothing involved.  Your Sonore's software already comes with the UPnP Bridge software installed.  There really is nothing to do.

Hmack posted:

French Rooster posted:

Hmack posted:

glevethan posted:

 

Hmack, you have the kds 0 and kds 2, why not sell both and have a kds 3?  just curiosity....

 

French Rooster, 

I sold my (Renew) KDS/0 to help fund the purchase of my Klimax KDS/1, so I only have the KDS/1. I believe that an upgrade to KDS/3 currently costs around £4,600, so it's not a particularly cheap upgrade. I really would like to compare the two first. 

It is the kind of upgrade where no demo is required.  Pretty much 100% universal uptake by everyone.  It is fairly dramatic.  Actually quite scary how they were able to so seriously upgrade the performance.

Hmack posted:

French Rooster posted:

Hmack posted:

glevethan posted:

 

Hmack, you have the kds 0 and kds 2, why not sell both and have a kds 3?  just curiosity....

 

French Rooster, 

I sold my (Renew) KDS/0 to help fund the purchase of my Klimax KDS/1, so I only have the KDS/1. I believe that an upgrade to KDS/3 currently costs around £4,600, so it's not a particularly cheap upgrade. I really would like to compare the two first. 

ah ok, i understood wrongly that you have kds/O too.  more comprehensive now...

Innocent Bystander posted:

In my experience Hugo 1 needed good isolation from a computer source (I used a Gustard U12), and not a direct USB connection, though the extent of any RF contamination of the signal would depend on the actual source, and probably other things connected to it, so the severity of effect undoubtedly varies. 

Indeed, I have never heard the Hugo (or several all other DACs) excelling with USB, even with a Melco... it has to be SPDIF with me. With SPDIF and a quality transport (in my case an NDX) you get that Mandelbrot effect on the Hugo  where all the artefacts of sounding smooth/grainy/rhythmic/pacey/bright/dark/timbre etc etc disappear and you can simply listen into the music .. that sweet spot is a most enjoyable place to be when you find it.

In my system, I've experimented with my own Chord QBD76HDSD DAC, and also with the Hugo and TT I borrowed, switching between USB & SPDIF from my Melco (via Luckit USB to SPDIF convertor) & came to the conclusion I preferred the USB inputs in each case. One of those things everyone needs to try.

Just on the side-lines soaking up info.

Not really Streaming, just local MM, with itunes Library, 4 days of continuous music, endless playlist, Airport Express to all 3 Systems Controlled by Android phone, whilst lying in Bed.

So I really don't understand Streaming to the extent of this thread!

NDS vs DAVE

But last year this time:

improved linn ref Klimax DS to be released - what naim's next move?

Seems about that time! 

A Streamer worthy of Naim's Statement!

Just saying! 

Allante93!

PS. Last year Naim Forum.

"Our reference network player, the NDS, is an audiophile-quality music source, every bit the sonic equal of the very finest high-end CD players and turntables. Whether you’re browsing your digitally stored music collection, exploring tens of thousands of internet radio stations, discovering music via the built in Spotify Connect feature, or indulging in a high-resolution 24bit/192kHz download, the NDS delivers unrivalled performance."

It's a competitive Market, I don't see Linn abandoning neither of it's Sources!

Naim has positioned itself to Market Conditions! 

The Focal/Naim Merger

Streamlining their line of products, it might be the idea time to offload Naim's Reference Streamer!

I don't see Naim abandoning their reference Streamer, but it's time for an upgrade!

What's Naims next move?

Remember in this hobby of yours, it's kinda like stock, Buy Low, and sell Hi!

Cash Flow!

Allante93 posted:

 

A Streamer worthy of Naim's Statement! 

It'll be very interesting, given the minimal design compromise remit on the Statement amp development, what the Naim engineering team can come up with for a Statement level streamer.

Allante93 posted:

Not really Streaming, just local MM, with itunes Library, 4 days of continuous music, endless playlist, Airport Express to all 3 Systems Controlled by Android phone, whilst lying in Bed.

So I really don't understand Streaming to the extent of this thread!

 

Yes, the term streaming is a little confusing, as it can be streaming of a music file from a local store, or from the internet, and the local store could be attached to the "streamer" or elsewhere on one's home network. And the problems people get with streaming tend to relate to this, unsurprisingly as the more complex and/or remote the transmission path the greater the potential for something to go wrong.

in terms of comparing NDS as a "streamer" with Dave, a renderer has to be factored in as well,whether that be a stand alone unit or computer software, or a dedicated device combined with a store (e.g. Uniti Core, Melco etc).

james n posted:

Allante93 posted:

 

A Streamer worthy of Naim's Statement! 

It'll be very interesting, given the minimal design compromise remit on the Statement amp development....

Good point James, that is an option, just sit tight and milk the market niche, which is supported by your customers base!

Allante93!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Allante93 posted:

Not really Streaming, just local MM, with itunes Library, 4 days of continuous music, endless playlist, Airport Express to all 3 Systems Controlled by Android phone, whilst lying in Bed.

So I really don't understand Streaming to the extent of this thread!

 

Yes, the term streaming is a little confusing, as it can be streaming of a music file from a local store, or from the internet, and the local store could be attached to the "streamer" or elsewhere on one's home network. And the problems people get with streaming tend to relate to this, unsurprisingly as the more complex and/or remote the transmission path the greater the potential for something to go wrong.

in terms of comparing NDS as a "streamer" with Dave, a renderer has to be factored in as well,whether that be a stand alone unit or computer software, or a dedicated device combined with a store (e.g. Uniti Core, Melco etc).

Very perceptive Innocent, you pegged me again!

Thanks for the info.

Allante93!

PS. Also thanks for SC transformer info.

Naim UK equipment in the US.

This thread is safe, No padded Cell here!

Hi Allante - my point was more around technical interest in what the design team come up with. The Statement amp team were given less constraints around budget and real estate which gave a lot more engineering freedom. I'm interested how this approach will be applied to a Statement level streamer solution 

james n posted:

Hi Allante - my point was more around technical interest in what the design team come up with. The Statement amp team were given less constraints around budget and real estate which gave a lot more engineering freedom. I'm interested how this approach will be applied to a Statement level streamer solution 

Excellent choice of word, remit!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Allante93 posted:

Not really Streaming, just local MM, with itunes Library, 4 days of continuous music, endless playlist, Airport Express to all 3 Systems Controlled by Android phone, whilst lying in Bed.

So I really don't understand Streaming to the extent of this thread!

 

Yes, the term streaming is a little confusing, as it can be streaming of a music file from a local store, or from the internet, and the local store could be attached to the "streamer" or elsewhere on one's home network. And the problems people get with streaming tend to relate to this, unsurprisingly as the more complex and/or remote the transmission path the greater the potential for something to go wrong.

in terms of comparing NDS as a "streamer" with Dave, a renderer has to be factored in as well,whether that be a stand alone unit or computer software, or a dedicated device combined with a store (e.g. Uniti Core, Melco etc).

My alert notifications hasn't been the same, since, the Thread UK equipment in the US was transferred to the Dreaded Padded Cell!

Mr Richard Dane was assisting Members, on how to remedy the problems, on the padded cell.

I have managed to get some notifications, but not the individuals who  liked my commits, as before.

Not important, I'll keep playing with it!

But in any event, just received the following:

59 replies on a NAIM Forum!

{I am so tired of Streaming!}

Wow!

Allante93!

PS. NDS vs DAVE

Puzzling & Confusing!

Alba1320 posted:

Hmack posted

 

I sold my (Renew) KDS/0 to help fund the purchase of my Klimax KDS/1, so I only have the KDS/1. I believe that an upgrade to KDS/3 currently costs around £4,600, so it's not a particularly cheap upgrade. I really would like to compare the two first. 

I'm not fully 'up to speed' on all things Linn, but If you are talking about the 'Katalyst upgrade for Klimax DS pre-Sept 2016', then the cost is 'only' £3850. 

Still correct, I believe. 

Also worth nothing that you can go for the Renew option at £1,900 and then either end up with a very fine source for a second system or something you can sell for a bit of a profit and recoup some of the cost. 

Hmack posted:

glevethan posted:

oscarskeeper posted:

Jonas, have you heard a Klimax DS3?

might be of interest.

++1

It is the best there is today.  I have lived with every incarnation.  The KDS3 (which is actually the 4th iteration) is a quantum leap.  Previously the jump from KDS/0 to KDS/1 was the largest of the group.  Now the move from KDS/2 to KDS/3 excels that.

Control points are robust with LUMIN as a nice third party option.  Linn have finally reached an agreement with ROON and implementation is under way.  Some of us are using a 3rd party "box" to implement ROON integration on a temporary basis while we wait for the official version.

ROON is a dramatic development in control point software.  It has to be experienced to understand what it is capable of.

You owe it to yourself to have a listen.

I certainly found the step up from KDS/0 to KDS/1 to be huge. If the step-up from DS/1 to DS/3 has anything like the same effect, I may just have to bite the bullet and upgrade in the not too distant future. The only problem is that it's next to impossible to obtain an audition/comparison prior to committing to the upgrade. 

However, I personally do not like LUMIN as a control point. I use it with my Sonore microRendu/Hugo setup in a 2nd system, but much prefer Kazoo for Windows and use that with my KDS/1. Roon is something I find it hard to envisage without a demo, and of course it is fairly pricey, so I will have to be persuaded if I am to make the leap of faith to use it. I guess if there is a trial period when it is integrated into the Linn streamers, I may just give it a try, although I really can't envisage just what it would offer me in order to justify its cost.  

I agree that an audition of a KDS/3 might prove to be quite interesting.

My microRendu/Hugo set up is great value for money, but my KDS/1 is simply much better to my ears. This is not something I would have stated when I had my DS/0, but the DS/1 provides a very much more powerful, rhythmic and lively presentation without compromising on subtlety and intricate detail than that of the microRendu/Hugo. My old DS/0, while still pretty good, sounded a little flat and sterile by comparison. 

The KDS/3 is likely to be pretty spectacular, and may just suit your taste. Have a listen if you can, Jonas.  

I did not care for the original KDS at all, but bought a KDS1, feeling it was a really significant change for the better. I  also passed on the upgrade from KDS1 to KDS2, feeling it was not really worth it.

The KDS3 is different. It is a massive and seriously impressive upgrade to what is already a wonderful bit of kit. 

Having previously owned an NDS alongside the KDS1 for a time, I can well see why people would go for it over the Linn. To my mind, neither was ultimately "better" in sound terms and both had their pros and cons in this regard, although the Linn software and ergonomics were much superior. In the end, for me, it was the Space Optimisation's ability to adapt in a difficult room which tipped the balance and meant I kept the Linn and sold the NDS.

Now, whilst I don't have the NDS any longer to listen side by side, I think it most unlikely anyone would prefer an NDS to a KDS3.

I am keen to see what Naim do in response to this, but I feel they need something pretty special - and not at Statement prices either.