NDS vs DAVE

analogmusic posted:

Dave to my ears sounds the closest (to) real music than I ever heard before.

Good, now you only have to try real music vs real music to have the definitive winner.

CD

And to relieve these hot long summer afternoons from boredom, here's a list of possible new threads:

DAVE vs Godzilla

When Harry met DAVE

The longest DAVE

Whatever happened to Baby DAVE?

10 Cloverfield DAVE

Gone with the DAVE

Enjoy!

CD

Crompton Divided posted:

analogmusic posted:

Dave to my ears sounds the closest (to) real music than I ever heard before.

Good, now you only have to try real music vs real music to have the definitive winner.

CD

No, I can't have a live band in my home to play songs at the click of a button,

With Dave I have this, it is as good as it gets.

Even with LP12 one cannot have this.

Long live Dave, then!

CD

Dave's not here.

perhaps Dave will knock at your door, with his son Hugo and Mojo friend...

French Rooster posted:

perhaps Dave will knock at your door, with his son Hugo and Mojo friend...

Surely with his three sons Hugo, Hugo 2 and Hugo TT, and Mojo, erm, companion...

i just read the first review of DAVE+BLU2 combo in highfidelty PL...

they like it...

Emre posted:

i just read the first review of DAVE+BLU2 combo in highfidelty PL...

they like it...

very good hifi magazine,  i read it often.  It would be fantastic if only the blu2 transport could be also a transport for high rez downloads....  Anyway i would be curious to hear it.

oscarskeeper posted:

Hmack posted:

glevethan posted:

oscarskeeper posted:

Jonas, have you heard a Klimax DS3?

might be of interest.

++1

It is the best there is today.  I have lived with every incarnation.  The KDS3 (which is actually the 4th iteration) is a quantum leap.  Previously the jump from KDS/0 to KDS/1 was the largest of the group.  Now the move from KDS/2 to KDS/3 excels that.

Control points are robust with LUMIN as a nice third party option.  Linn have finally reached an agreement with ROON and implementation is under way.  Some of us are using a 3rd party "box" to implement ROON integration on a temporary basis while we wait for the official version.

ROON is a dramatic development in control point software.  It has to be experienced to understand what it is capable of.

You owe it to yourself to have a listen.

I certainly found the step up from KDS/0 to KDS/1 to be huge. If the step-up from DS/1 to DS/3 has anything like the same effect, I may just have to bite the bullet and upgrade in the not too distant future. The only problem is that it's next to impossible to obtain an audition/comparison prior to committing to the upgrade. 

However, I personally do not like LUMIN as a control point. I use it with my Sonore microRendu/Hugo setup in a 2nd system, but much prefer Kazoo for Windows and use that with my KDS/1. Roon is something I find it hard to envisage without a demo, and of course it is fairly pricey, so I will have to be persuaded if I am to make the leap of faith to use it. I guess if there is a trial period when it is integrated into the Linn streamers, I may just give it a try, although I really can't envisage just what it would offer me in order to justify its cost.  

I agree that an audition of a KDS/3 might prove to be quite interesting.

My microRendu/Hugo set up is great value for money, but my KDS/1 is simply much better to my ears. This is not something I would have stated when I had my DS/0, but the DS/1 provides a very much more powerful, rhythmic and lively presentation without compromising on subtlety and intricate detail than that of the microRendu/Hugo. My old DS/0, while still pretty good, sounded a little flat and sterile by comparison. 

The KDS/3 is likely to be pretty spectacular, and may just suit your taste. Have a listen if you can, Jonas.  

I did not care for the original KDS at all, but bought a KDS1, feeling it was a really significant change for the better. I  also passed on the upgrade from KDS1 to KDS2, feeling it was not really worth it.

The KDS3 is different. It is a massive and seriously impressive upgrade to what is already a wonderful bit of kit. 

Having previously owned an NDS alongside the KDS1 for a time, I can well see why people would go for it over the Linn. To my mind, neither was ultimately "better" in sound terms and both had their pros and cons in this regard, although the Linn software and ergonomics were much superior. In the end, for me, it was the Space Optimisation's ability to adapt in a difficult room which tipped the balance and meant I kept the Linn and sold the NDS.

Now, whilst I don't have the NDS any longer to listen side by side, I think it most unlikely anyone would prefer an NDS to a KDS3.

 

Big mistake to assume what other people may prefer. I chose the NDS (2x 555 DR PS) over the KDS3 following a comparison because while the KDS3 is more detailed it lacks substance. This is most apparent on acoustic guitar which the NDS represents as three dimensional with the body and  tone of a real instrument. With the KDS3 I couldn't get over the fact that it was an artificial representation and despite the clarity and detail it was just less convincing.

Jonn posted:

oscarskeeper posted:

Hmack posted:

glevethan posted:

oscarskeeper posted:

Jonas, have you heard a Klimax DS3?

might be of interest.

++1

It is the best there is today.  I have lived with every incarnation.  The KDS3 (which is actually the 4th iteration) is a quantum leap.  Previously the jump from KDS/0 to KDS/1 was the largest of the group.  Now the move from KDS/2 to KDS/3 excels that.

Control points are robust with LUMIN as a nice third party option.  Linn have finally reached an agreement with ROON and implementation is under way.  Some of us are using a 3rd party "box" to implement ROON integration on a temporary basis while we wait for the official version.

ROON is a dramatic development in control point software.  It has to be experienced to understand what it is capable of.

You owe it to yourself to have a listen.

I certainly found the step up from KDS/0 to KDS/1 to be huge. If the step-up from DS/1 to DS/3 has anything like the same effect, I may just have to bite the bullet and upgrade in the not too distant future. The only problem is that it's next to impossible to obtain an audition/comparison prior to committing to the upgrade. 

However, I personally do not like LUMIN as a control point. I use it with my Sonore microRendu/Hugo setup in a 2nd system, but much prefer Kazoo for Windows and use that with my KDS/1. Roon is something I find it hard to envisage without a demo, and of course it is fairly pricey, so I will have to be persuaded if I am to make the leap of faith to use it. I guess if there is a trial period when it is integrated into the Linn streamers, I may just give it a try, although I really can't envisage just what it would offer me in order to justify its cost.  

I agree that an audition of a KDS/3 might prove to be quite interesting.

My microRendu/Hugo set up is great value for money, but my KDS/1 is simply much better to my ears. This is not something I would have stated when I had my DS/0, but the DS/1 provides a very much more powerful, rhythmic and lively presentation without compromising on subtlety and intricate detail than that of the microRendu/Hugo. My old DS/0, while still pretty good, sounded a little flat and sterile by comparison. 

The KDS/3 is likely to be pretty spectacular, and may just suit your taste. Have a listen if you can, Jonas.  

I did not care for the original KDS at all, but bought a KDS1, feeling it was a really significant change for the better. I  also passed on the upgrade from KDS1 to KDS2, feeling it was not really worth it.

The KDS3 is different. It is a massive and seriously impressive upgrade to what is already a wonderful bit of kit. 

Having previously owned an NDS alongside the KDS1 for a time, I can well see why people would go for it over the Linn. To my mind, neither was ultimately "better" in sound terms and both had their pros and cons in this regard, although the Linn software and ergonomics were much superior. In the end, for me, it was the Space Optimisation's ability to adapt in a difficult room which tipped the balance and meant I kept the Linn and sold the NDS.

Now, whilst I don't have the NDS any longer to listen side by side, I think it most unlikely anyone would prefer an NDS to a KDS3.

 

Big mistake to assume what other people may prefer. I chose the NDS (2x 555 DR PS) over the KDS3 following a comparison because while the KDS3 is more detailed it lacks substance. This is most apparent on acoustic guitar which the NDS represents as three dimensional with the body and  tone of a real instrument. With the KDS3 I couldn't get over the fact that it was an artificial representation and despite the clarity and detail it was just less convincing.

John - that is interesting to hear. A relative "lack of body" was precisely where I felt the KDS had previously been notably inferior to the NDS. I however felt the latest version had almost but not entirely made up the ground in that area whilst still doing what it had previously done so well.

Jonn posted: 

Big mistake to assume what other people may prefer. I chose the NDS (2x 555 DR PS) over the KDS3 following a comparison because while the KDS3 is more detailed it lacks substance. This is most apparent on acoustic guitar which the NDS represents as three dimensional with the body and  tone of a real instrument. With the KDS3 I couldn't get over the fact that it was an artificial representation and despite the clarity and detail it was just less convincing.

Next time do the demo again however use a Chord Music cable on the end of the KDS3. The cost is half a single 555PS.  I believe the cost of a KDS/3 With Chord Music is less than the NDS (2X 555PS).

The Klimax streamers weak link lie in the cables.  It is capable of so much more - if the correct cable is used to allow it to show its true performance. 

I do not think you will be complaining about a lack of substance if you heard it with the Chord Music cable

glevethan posted:

Jonn posted: 

Big mistake to assume what other people may prefer. I chose the NDS (2x 555 DR PS) over the KDS3 following a comparison because while the KDS3 is more detailed it lacks substance. This is most apparent on acoustic guitar which the NDS represents as three dimensional with the body and  tone of a real instrument. With the KDS3 I couldn't get over the fact that it was an artificial representation and despite the clarity and detail it was just less convincing.

Next time do the demo again however use a Chord Music cable on the end of the KDS3. The cost is half a single 555PS.  I believe the cost of a KDS/3 With Chord Music is less than the NDS (2X 555PS).

The Klimax streamers weak link lie in the cables.  It is capable of so much more - if the correct cable is used to allow it to show its true performance. 

I do not think you will be complaining about a lack of substance if you heard it with the Chord Music cable

Could be, although the Chord cables that I've heard recently on demonstration (T and Music) seem to make the music more natural and immersive, letting you experience the emotion behind the performance rather than necessarily adding more body or weight to the sound. Admittedly this is with my NDS rather than with the KDS. 

The could be greater synergy in any case with my 552/500 using the NDS compared with KDS.

Jonn posted:

Could be, although the Chord cables that I've heard recently on demonstration (T and Music) seem to make the music more natural and immersive, letting you experience the emotion behind the performance rather than necessarily adding more body or weight to the sound. Admittedly this is with my NDS rather than with the KDS. 

The could be greater synergy in any case with my 552/500 using the NDS compared with KDS.

If you have only demoed the Chord cables with the NDS you will be in for quite a surprise to see what they do for the KDS.  Subterranean weight body and texture.

As for greater synergy using a NDS with 552/500 vs the synergy of the KDS with the 552/500 - if you hunt this forum you will see a significant and large number of users, running 552/500 systems and less, who have moved on from Naim sources to DS series source. 

I can only speak from personal experience and can say that there is tremendous synergy between my KDS and my 552/500 system.  Hand in glove synergy - the same as with my LP12 and 552/500 combination.

I'd be surprised if overall there were more people using non-naim sources rather than naim sources with naim amps, excluding turntables. Where they do it tends to be different DACs e.g. Chord.

While there are a few KDS users posting on this site they seem to be in a minority as you would expect on the Naim Forum, most KDS users seem to be using Linn amps if the Linn Forum is anything to go by.

While cables do have an influence on the sound they rarely change the general "character" in my experience so I'm in no rush to reevaluate the KDS3 as I'm very happy with the NDS and don't see a need to change.

I go back quite a number of years on this forum. I remember when the original KDS came out  there were quite a large number of Naim users who moved on and into the Linn digital source.  At that time there was only the HDX available - and not that many fans of its performance or build quality (off the shelf computer inside). Naim were also trying to convince us that their proprietary ripping engine yielded "better rips" than commercially available software packages such as dBPoweramp etc. - that their WAV rips were superior to FLAC rips etc.   A non truth. 

The KDS/1 - a major upgrade to the original KDS - came out a few months before the NDS and gathered even more switchers.  You would be surprised how many of "us" there are.  Many are long time forum members who don't post as often as they used to.

The NDS does need to be looked at.  It has been out a number of years - in which time both the KDS/2 and KDS/3 updates have come out.  While the KDS/2 was an "insignificant" upgrade the KDS/3 was seismic.  The entire DAC chip and engine was changed and they are completely different from all previous incarnations.  The underlying KATALYST technology is making its way throughout the entire lineup.