I am so sick of streaming....

For many routers and wifi access points don't make the best bed fellows not least for the reasons Mike describes above, but does seem to be the default for most....

Get one or preferably a couple or more of these - wire to your switch - and they can be powered by the ethernet lead - they come with adapters if you don't have a suitable PoE switch which I guess most on this forum won't - put them high on the ceiling or on the wall - I have one of mine next to my landing smoke alarm and they are approximately the same size. You may just find your wifi issues become a thing of the past. Price about £100 each including PoE adapter. You can set up many devices that overlap and all have the same SSID and deices then hand off and load balance between them - if you are streaming hidef wirelessly your other clients will automatically connect to one of the access points if you have them or change band channels if possible if bandwidth gets close to being an issue - really really effective... I think Naim should give them away with each streamer 

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

For many routers and wifi access points don't make the best bed fellows not least for the reasons Mike describes above, but does seem to be the default for most....

 

Get one or preferably a couple or more of these - wire to your switch - and they can be powered by the ethernet lead - they come with adapters if you don't have a suitable PoE switch which I guess most on this forum won't - put them high on the ceiling or on the wall - I have one of mine next to my landing smoke alarm and they are approximately the same size. You may just find your wifi issues become a thing of the past. Price about £100 each including PoE adapter. You can set up many devices that overlap and all have the same SSID and deices then hand off and load balance between them - if you are streaming hidef wirelessly your other clients will automatically connect to one of the access points if you have them or change band channels if possible if bandwidth gets close to being an issue - really really effective... I think Naim should give them away with each streamer 

Simon

 

Im off to Hyper U to get one...

OK Simon - pray tell what is this device? And I am not sure where it falls in the network chain, keeping in mind that my AT&T device is the modem (that is the proprietary part) and the router all in one.

So, from the photo link I found the item...being a networking luddite I am still not sure how or where it is used. I see they run about $300+ USD.

My setup is network comes into house, goes through AT&T device, which is hard-wired to my Vortexbox (and the computer that I use the browser to interface with the VB), and then everything else in the house (including the 272) is connected via w-ifi.

Drmark it is a Wifi access point - i.e. the Wifi radio on your network. You would use it and preferably others in place of the wifi on your router which you would disable. You would connect these devices to your home router switch ports or a separate switch using ethernet wire - and you would power the devices via their ethernet wire.

There are several versions - you only need the AC lite version which should be what I pictured - i.e. the Ubiquiti UniFi AP AC Lite. They are around £80 in the UK online and so I would expect $80 or better in the US.

In your setup it might be that you hardwire these Access Points to your AT&T device .... have a look at the manufacturer's website and get a feel whether its something you might be comfortable embarking upon. Try and have at least two Access Points overlapping where your steamer would be...

S

Well go to metageek dot com and look at chanalyzerm and the spectrum analysis hardware. If you are going to run critical services over wifi then at least know what is going on.  The cost is not cheap, but trivial in comparison with expensive hifi kit

If it all looks too complex, then get the hardware and get a mate to use it at your house for you. 

Otherwise you are just mucking around in the dark.

Oh, and a quick google will find the tplink MC200CM gig ethernet to fibre transceivers at 40 quid each, plus a length of pre-plugged fibre. Vastly better than any wifi connection.

jon honeyball posted:

Well go to metageek dot com and look at chanalyzerm and the spectrum analysis hardware. If you are going to run critical services over wifi then at least know what is going on.  The cost is not cheap, but trivial in comparison with expensive hifi kit

If it all looks too complex, then get the hardware and get a mate to use it at your house for you. 

Otherwise you are just mucking around in the dark.

The  Unifi products have spectrum analysis capability built in and you can initiate a scan so they use the less congested  and noise free channels. The spectrum analysis can be undertaken for 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands. They will also show you how much data you are losing through noise and congestion if it occurs. Without this sort of basic capability wifi is just a complete gamble.. and the nice thing is none of this has to be complicated, the devices take care of it for you - you just need to instruct the AP to do the scans and it does the rest. Obviously when scanning that AP is out of service - but with overlapping APs this is not an issue.

DrMark posted:

OK Simon - pray tell what is this device? And I am not sure where it falls in the network chain, keeping in mind that my AT&T device is the modem (that is the proprietary part) and the router all in one.

So, from the photo link I found the item...being a networking luddite I am still not sure how or where it is used. I see they run about $300+ USD.

My setup is network comes into house, goes through AT&T device, which is hard-wired to my Vortexbox (and the computer that I use the browser to interface with the VB), and then everything else in the house (including the 272) is connected via w-ifi.

Ubiquiti Networks UAP-AC PRO-5

Available from muddy river $188 your side of the pond, but the U in the centre is similar to our Hyper U shop logo.

I had a pair of unifi pro ones very expensive and I sent them back as they were so slow. However I have had superb results from the bt whole home ones which are basically the same (Not as sophisticated in regards to the settings/server etc) 

I would caveat that mine are all hard wired which makes a large difference but they are superb, save a few buckeroos against the unifi stuff.

Cant speak for the 'pro' sounds like you had some faulty stock  - I recommend the AP AC lite - very fast, effective and dual banded for Naim and newer devices using 802.11ac. The lite versions are around £80 / $80. Your wifi woes should be a thing of the past if setup well with good overlapping coverage .. I think Naim have used these successfully for certain 'choice' deployments - but Phil would need to comment. I was streaming Hidef video realtime with other devices connected with no noticeable performance hit yesterday evening - very impressed

I did find the "lites" in the $80 range. Thank you.

However, at the risk of being dubbed someone who is too dense to stream; if I attach one or 2 of these to my router (assuming I can disable the wifi on it without screwing it up...my big fear is that I jack up the whole thing and suddenly not only do I have streaming issues, but then I have no internet and nothing else works) - I am apparently constrained to them being in the room where by router is? (If they are connected via ethernet how would I be expected to get them to other parts of the house, or is simply raising it up high enough of an improvement? - I would think not.)

To get the most out of these devices they need to be wired with Ethernet cables to your router. The Ethernet cable can carry power as well as data so you don't need to worry about powering them separately. However, if you're going to have to expend effort to lay in cables to position the access points at their best locations you might as well consider getting an Ethernet cable to your streamer...

Fair question. Disabling the wifi on your broadband router shouldn't affect your broadband connectivity. 

As far as connecting  the APs you would need to connect them via Ethernet to your router switch ports - so in the limit you could run ethernet cable underneath carpet, tack to skirting board, put in trunking etc. Yes put them high up if possible and perhaps one on each floor if you have a multi floor house. The more you use - the lower the signal strength needs to be and less susceptible to interference they become. Your wired network essentially becomes for the most part the connections to the wifi access points for your house - and NAS and other more intensive things in your study using or equivalent using wired ethernet.

S

Adrian_P posted:

... However, if you're going to have to expend effort to lay in cables to position the access points at their best locations you might as well consider getting an Ethernet cable to your streamer...

I don't disagree with the logic - but the Access Points can be in halls, lobbies and landings and may be easier to route cabling than in the living room or music room

I was having wireless streaming issues with a Muso Qb which was in the kitchen with sound dropping at regular intervals (several times during every song) and it not being seen in the app on occasions.  So basically I had stopped using it and it just sat there looking good for a couple of months.

My ISP supplied router died the other week and I bought a Netgear replacement and thought I'd give the Muso Qb another try and it streams wirelessly utterly perfectly now.  Even full fat FLAC CD rips transcoded to WAV.  Now I'm using it every day.

Dr. Mark -  Some of your issues may be related to wifi stability and but also to sensitivity of Naim streamers.  My wi-fi issues with a single Apple Airport were resolved when I switched to an wireless mesh system from Eero that utilizes 3 units strategically placed for wide coverage.   The system is rock solid now 24/7.  My steaming source (UltraRendu from Sonore and Sonic Transporter server) is rock solid, very simple to use and sounds amazing..   I also live in NC, so contact me if you wish to discuss.   Bruce in Winston-Salem, NC. 

I have not read through this whole thing so maybe it was addressed

I have Comcast and have the same stupid situation with Comcast router/modem.   But the fix is easy   I had an Apple modem....now eero.  Just chat online with ATT to ask them to put your modem/router into bridge mode.  I did it myself but they can do it also online.  Then you still pay the $7 a month for crappy modem but you can use your own router.  It seriously takes 5 minutes

Kendrick posted:

Dr. Mark -  Some of your issues may be related to wifi stability and but also to sensitivity of Naim streamers.  My wi-fi issues with a single Apple Airport were resolved when I switched to an wireless mesh system from Eero that utilizes 3 units strategically placed for wide coverage.   The system is rock solid now 24/7.  My steaming source (UltraRendu from Sonore and Sonic Transporter server) is rock solid, very simple to use and sounds amazing..   I also live in NC, so contact me if you wish to discuss.   Bruce in Winston-Salem, NC. 

Good to hear.. hopefully more and more will realise the benefits of proper wifi with overlapping and participating access points and get away from the far from optimal but sadly default for many option of having the broadband router or any router control the wifi and using  single isolated SSIDs ... perhaps then people will have better confidence in wifi which if set up properly has the potential of being as effective as wired connections for many applications such as audio streaming...  and 'stuff' will just work better for many

I'm a new owner of a ND5XS (and this is my first posting to Naim Forum).  Thankfully, I'm experiencing no problems with a wireless connection - but I put that down to having sorted my wifi ills beforehand by purchasing Google WiFi.   My Sky modem/router is at the front of the house, my stereo system (and the laptop on which I'm typing this) is in an extension at the back of the house.  Between them is a whacking great RSJ, supported by two upright RSJs, which holds up what used to be the end wall of the house, before the extension was built.  This seemed to act like some kind of Faraday cage, preventing the wifi signal from the router reaching the rear with any consistency.  The Google WiFi has solved all that.  It has a couple of units; one is connected directly to the original modem/router and the other is placed nearby the "not spot" (there's an app that tests the signal strength to help you find the best location) to create a wifi mesh.  It operates with 2.4 and 5 GHz devices, automatically selects the least congested channel and switches connection to the unit with the strongest signal as you carry your mobile devices around. You can add more units to extend the coverage indefinitely.  I believe other systems like this are available but this one has worked a treat for me.

I would be uncomfortable with a google wifi device lol.

Cliffh posted:

I'm a new owner of a ND5XS (and this is my first posting to Naim Forum).  Thankfully, I'm experiencing no problems with a wireless connection - but I put that down to having sorted my wifi ills beforehand by purchasing Google WiFi.   My Sky modem/router is at the front of the house, my stereo system (and the laptop on which I'm typing this) is in an extension at the back of the house.  Between them is a whacking great RSJ, supported by two upright RSJs, which holds up what used to be the end wall of the house, before the extension was built.  This seemed to act like some kind of Faraday cage, preventing the wifi signal from the router reaching the rear with any consistency.  The Google WiFi has solved all that.  It has a couple of units; one is connected directly to the original modem/router and the other is placed nearby the "not spot" (there's an app that tests the signal strength to help you find the best location) to create a wifi mesh.  It operates with 2.4 and 5 GHz devices, automatically selects the least congested channel and switches connection to the unit with the strongest signal as you carry your mobile devices around. You can add more units to extend the coverage indefinitely.  I believe other systems like this are available but this one has worked a treat for me.

With apologies for the slight delay - welcome to the Forum, Cliff!

I have been using the Unifi APs that Simon recommends for a couple of years now without any issues. We have a 3 story, thick walled Edwardian House with the modem, router and broadband connection all in the corner of a top floor study, where originally a modem just fed a local PC before all this talk of home wi-fi and streaming. Once a wi-fi router was introduced of course the signal in the ground floor living areas was pretty poor and we struggled until getting the Unifi products, having been through quite a few range extenders etc, which were all more trouble than they were worth.  In the interim while re-modelling the kitchen I ran ethernet outside the house from the router to a cupboard in the kitchen serving a 24 port switch. All of the downstairs rooms now have hard wired ethernet from the switch. We replaced some badly cracking ceilings around the same time so used the opportunity to run ethernet everywhere on the ground floor. Hi-Fi and TVs are all hard wired, and everybody now gets a strong wi-fi signal for phones, tablets and laptops from the Unifis.

My Unifi APs needed to be near power outlets as I don't have a PoE switch. One sits on top of a kitchen cupboard and one sits behind the sofa in the living room.  I still have my router kick out a wi-fi signal (never thought of disabling this) and that covers the top and middle floors of the house with the Unifis covering the ground floor in rooms where the doors are often closed (bloody pets and loud music). 

I guess the moral is - don't be afraid to use the outside of your house with properly rated ethernet cable to reach otherwise problematic areas, if you don't fancy ripping through walls, floors and ceilings. 

Eloise posted:

Networking and especially wireless can be fickle things.  Everything is supposed to be compatible but I find there can be problems and not just with Naim.  Two examples...

I have Sky broadband... if I let my iPad connect to the Sky Q Hub direct, 50% of the time I can’t SSH to my Linux servers.  If I connect to an AirPort Extreme there is no issue.

And (more directly relevant to Naim) because I have TV, Naim 272 and a Sky box together, I run a cable to a small switch then onto each device.  Never had drop outs in use, but the Naim “fulls off” the network when using a Belkin switch, with the Netgear GS105 switch I’ve just swapped in so far (in 7 days) the Naim hasn’t fallen off the network at all.  And the Belkin switch is works fine for the Uniti Qute in a similar situation upstairs where the Netgear came from.

Interestingly I was doing some network 'updating' of a friend's network the other weekend - we were using a smattering of Netear GS108 and GS116 switches and we did find that the GS116's that we had did have stability issues when used with SkyQ kit whereas the GS108's didn't ... as it is we were able to "get away" with using the 108's rather than the 116's for the SkyQ boxes (and I've not had any issues with the 116's other wise except for a very early 5v DC version - the current ones are 12v DC) so we were OK in the end.

Phil

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Cant speak for the 'pro' sounds like you had some faulty stock  - I recommend the AP AC lite - very fast, effective and dual banded for Naim and newer devices using 802.11ac. The lite versions are around £80 / $80. Your wifi woes should be a thing of the past if setup well with good overlapping coverage .. I think Naim have used these successfully for certain 'choice' deployments - but Phil would need to comment. I was streaming Hidef video realtime with other devices connected with no noticeable performance hit yesterday evening - very impressed

 

I use them myself (I have three UAP-AC Pro's at home) and generally tend to try to insist that if someone asks me to give them a hand with their networking woes (as a favour or whatever) then they are open to using these rather than cheap-and-cheerful stuff from PC World or Maplin ...

Had years of trying to cadjole our old MDs network at home into behaving as he insised on using multiple wireless extenders and not running cables around (I know - go figure!) but eventually after many months of hassling him I got his (or more appropriately, his good ladies) OK to string a few network cables and slap in a trio of the Unifi APs as a test and of course it all worked...

I've used them in many situations now - I understand that the Rukus stuff is good too but I haven't used any of that.

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Eloise posted:

Networking and especially wireless can be fickle things.  Everything is supposed to be compatible but I find there can be problems and not just with Naim.  Two examples...

I have Sky broadband... if I let my iPad connect to the Sky Q Hub direct, 50% of the time I can’t SSH to my Linux servers.  If I connect to an AirPort Extreme there is no issue.

And (more directly relevant to Naim) because I have TV, Naim 272 and a Sky box together, I run a cable to a small switch then onto each device.  Never had drop outs in use, but the Naim “fulls off” the network when using a Belkin switch, with the Netgear GS105 switch I’ve just swapped in so far (in 7 days) the Naim hasn’t fallen off the network at all.  And the Belkin switch is works fine for the Uniti Qute in a similar situation upstairs where the Netgear came from.

Interestingly I was doing some network 'updating' of a friend's network the other weekend - we were using a smattering of Netear GS108 and GS116 switches and we did find that the GS116's that we had did have stability issues when used with SkyQ kit whereas the GS108's didn't ... as it is we were able to "get away" with using the 108's rather than the 116's for the SkyQ boxes (and I've not had any issues with the 116's other wise except for a very early 5v DC version - the current ones are 12v DC) so we were OK in the end.

Phil

Yes another case of possible questionable consumer 'home network' equipment... seems to be the cause of so much frustration. SkyQ uses layer 2 ethernet addressing with no layer 3 IP addressing for some of its host addresses. This is, or should be, regular and standard ethernet capability  however it appears that certain consumer devices may be  struggling here because the typical web or social media user uses web applications that always have a layer 3 address and so perhaps haven't bothered to do complete implementations in these switch devices, just like some consumer routers for example struggle with multicast etc

So I would rephrase: " Home consumer networking and especially home consumer wireless can be fickle things.......", you can see why Sky installers prefer not to use consumer home networking equipment with their SkyQ boxes if they can help it