A request.

Perhaps this should be in the padded cell. Please Mr Moderator, move it there if you so think proper.

CD

I have moved the thread to the Padded Cell.

While I do appreciate it when posters use proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling, I'm also aware that in asking that all members communicate in the English language, a sizeable number of posters will be typing in English as a second or third language.  As such, I think it's quite forgivable.  

I'm not sure why people get quite so worked up about this on a forum. If i'm writing a letter, job application etc, then my punctuation and grammar is perfect. If i'm bashing out a reply on this forum then sometimes that care may go amiss. I may be rushing, I may be using a small screen (if via phone) and mistakes get made. The short edit time means that often mistakes don't get corrected 

I don't know your circumstances and you don't know mine. With this in mind, I tend to give someone the benefit of the doubt when i read a forum post that is less than perfectly formed and focus on replying to a query rather than pointing out grammatical mistakes. It tends to make the forum a more pleasant place 

I have to agree with James.I wasn't very well educated by no fault of the system.I just found it hard to do the academic stuff and very easy to do the hands on stuff.I left school at 15(now 49) and started work 2 weeks before my 16th birthday.I have been in the same manufacturing job ever since.so I have never had the need or the desire to improve on my academic skills.I am not a very good reader,writer or speller but with the aid of modern technology I can get by.

On the other hand I can knock a nail in straight and I know many that can't.Not everyone can be good at everything.So if I get a comma or full stop in the wrong place on a forum I ain't apologising to no one.

Please also be aware of the problems of dyslexics, many of whom have a hard time trying to work out good spelling, grammar, punctuation and/or general linguistic formatting.

I noticed this morning that Radio 4 has started using 'cannons' as the plural of cannon.

First, Humphrys earning 650 grand, then Pegg-eye going flapjack-feral, and now this.

I think I should move to Tunbridge Wells.

rodwsmith posted:

I noticed this morning that Radio 4 has started using 'cannons' as the plural of cannon.

Erm ... what is the plural?

The first quotation of “cannons” cited in OED is in 1525, which is earlier than the first quotation of “cannon” as a collective noun or plural in 1596.

Perfect English is slowly being eradicated at least by the media, I think the concept of communication in language is taking over in every day life, till one day we will rely on old Shakespeare plays to remind us what it was like to speak a certain form of English, 

"Hark, I was stood infront of Macbeth"

Romi posted:

Perfect English is slowly being eradicated at least by the media, I think the concept of communication in language is taking over in every day life, till one day we will rely on old Shakespeare plays to remind us what it was like to speak a certain form of English, 

"Hark, I was stood infront of Macbeth"

Shouldn’t that be.

See You, Ah wis staun infront o Macbeth

Does anybody actually believe Shakespeare accurately depicted the typical vocabulary of the average 16^th century Scotsman or Englishman.

However, I must admit, I do get annoyed when I read the errors in the headlines BBC and sky news scroll across the bottom of the screen. I put it down to the onset of old age, I’ll be getting interested in gardening next.

Eloise posted:

rodwsmith posted:

I noticed this morning that Radio 4 has started using 'cannons' as the plural of cannon.

Erm ... what is the plural?

The first quotation of “cannons” cited in OED is in 1525, which is earlier than the first quotation of “cannon” as a collective noun or plural in 1596.

OMG I don't remember that far back, I wasn't alive then!   

The plural of cannon is cannon. 

I was taught that at school, and I won't be told otherwise.

(I notice that even the lefty Grauniad agrees with this: https://www.theguardian.com/gu...server-style-guide-c)

But I apologise, it is Jill who us the phantom flapjack flinger, not Peggy.

According to the Websters dictionary the plural can be either cannon or cannons, with the former being the more usual.

Romi posted:

Perfect English is slowly being eradicated at least by the media, I think the concept of communication in language is taking over in every day life, till one day we will rely on old Shakespeare plays to remind us what it was like to speak a certain form of English, 

"Hark, I was stood infront of Macbeth"

Well I, for one, will not be posting here in barely intelligible iambic pentameter just to make a point. Besides, Shakespeare couldn't even spell cannon.

"Yes;
As sparrows eagles, or the hare the lion.
If I say sooth, I must report they were
As cannons overcharged with double cracks, so they
Doubly redoubled strokes upon the foe"

Languages are living organisms and as such susceptible to environmental  and cultural changes  thus adapting themselves. As the Romans would say:    "quod est onus Domini bollocks"

Me thinks some forum members have to much time on their hands...... 

+1

Me gut English write, yes?

An interesting thread for a non-native speaker to follow. 
Like the OP I'm quite often bemused by the creativity in spelling and grammar that I find in the posts.

I also adore some of the prose and a beautiful use of the language some of the fellow members display.

I think, us foreigners, benefit from English being taught to us in a structured way. 
Something that the UK education system seems to lack to a certain degree. When I came to the UK I had to do my A-Levels - I was perplexed when I learnt that English (as a language) was no longer compulsory for 16-year olds (In Poland, our native langue, was obligatory untill the age of 19). In a way late teens are the most formative...

Cheers,

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

Me gut English write, yes?

Ja. (pronounced as in Icelandic - 'yow')

English is a little odd as a language - it's a hybrid, a mongrel derived for many stems (primarily Eastern Germanic, Norse and Romance stems, but there are others), as such it lacks the consistence of most other languages.  For many this would be a disadvantage however English took on another approach.  Instead of keeping the rules of each language in the way and place they were incorporated, in many cases English allows those rules to be used in a mix-and-match manner.  As a result you can mix up an English sentence in many ways and still be understood (do that in French, for instance, and the French will look at you with incredulity and complete incomprehension).

Two things to illustrate this, one a quote, the other a limerick (a sort of comic poem named after an Irish town).

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
James D. Nicoll

There was an old woman from Slough
Who had a most terrible cough
But even though
She's feeling most rough
We do hope that she can pull through

For non native English speakers although each line ends -ough, none of them rhyme!
(Particularly for you Adam as written Polish is phonetic; so (to the best of my knowledge) this can't happen in your language!)

Adam Zielinski posted:

An interesting thread for a non-native speaker to follow. 
Like the OP I'm quite often bemused by the creativity in spelling and grammar that I find in the posts.

I also adore some of the prose and a beautiful use of the language some of the fellow members display.

I think, us foreigners, benefit from English being taught to us in a structured way. 
Something that the UK education system seems to lack to a certain degree. When I came to the UK I had to do my A-Levels - I was perplexed when I learnt that English (as a language) was no longer compulsory for 16-year olds (In Poland, our native langue, was obligatory untill the age of 19). In a way late teens are the most formative...

Cheers,

Adam

English used to be taught in a very structured way, though only compulsory to what when I was at school was called the 5th year, now "year 12" (16th birthday year). Some idiots in the British education system decided that formal English was not important all the way through, as it could be learnt through its use in other subjects. Unfortunately a lot of teachers, at least of subjects other than English, seemingly themselves were/are poor at English and/or had not been advised to correct bad English on the part of students...

Of course, as has been noted, even if born and brought up in Britain with English as their first language, not everyone is academically minded, or has necessarily had the opportunity to learn, or received adequate tuition, or has the ability to achieve greatness in the language. So, yes, criticism of people for their grammar and spelling on a forum about hifi and music would seem inappropriate - however in my view that does not necessarily mean it is wrong to have gentle fun pointing out unintended meanings, or pointing out an habitual error made by someone whose English does otherwise appear to be reasonable (the apostrophe comes to mind).

Here's hoping my iPad hasn't auto-corrected anything in this post! 

And this to posters whose native language is not English (other than those who use a translator before posting): Most, if not all, of your attempts at English are infinitely better than my ability in French, which I was taught at school for 5 years, Polish, despite a Polish parent and my parents often conversing in Polish, or Cantonese, with which I have had familial contact for over 25 years. I am ashamed of my poor ability with other languages, and admire you for your ability - and the same applies when I travel to other countries on holiday, where I try to say a few things in the local language, and am frequently rescued by a responce in often very good English.

Hungryhalibut posted:

According to the Websters dictionary the plural can be either cannon or cannons, with the former being the more usual.

Cannon"s - is defiantly write.

As long as peeple take care with there responces what harm is their in a little bit of creative writing

Innocent Bystander posted:

And this to posters whose native language is not English (other than those who use a translator before posting): Most, if not all, of your attempts at English are infinitely better than my ability in French, which I was taught at school for 5 years, Polish, despite a Polish parent and my parents often conversing in Polish, or Cantonese, with which I have had familial contact for over 25 years. I am ashamed of my poor ability with other languages, and admire you for your ability - and the same applies when I travel to other countries on holiday, where I try to say a few things in the local language, and am frequently rescued by a responce in often very good English.

I like the idea of a responce, though maybe it's something for adults only. 

Ha. Derek beat me to it.