Next upgrade, 300DR or...?

An XPS for the NDX, or an NDS/555PS should come first. 

This is where you really should make decisions based on your own findings, preferably with the help of a dealer who can help you listen and assess the different options for yourself - you will not find a consensus here, and even if you did, it wouldn't necessarily match your own preferences. The obvious options for you to shortlist include a PSU for the NDX, or an external DAC (Naim or non-Naim) or swap NDX for NDS. Change 282 for 252 (easy enough as you already have a Supercap, but not everyone likes what a 252 does.) I would probably leave the 300 for later, but as always, let your own ears decide.

Definitely get XPS or 555 for the NDX.  With regard to 300dr vs 250 dr more difficult.  Pre dr days the 300 was a far far better proposition than the 250 but to these ears the 250 dr makes it a far closer call.   

Regards,

Lindsay

Hani posted:

Hello NAIM lovers,

Planning an upgrade, current system is 250/282/SuperCap/NDX/Focal Sopra 2. What's next? My plan, 300DR. Any suggestion?  What about XPS For my NDX, or swap a 282 for 252.

nds / xps or 555 dr ....my first choice.

in a short time will appear hugo proposition, as in every topics...

I'd go 300dr especially if you have a 250/2 rather than a dr spec one. Depends on you're future plans. You could even dr the 250 if it is a 250/2. 

French Rooster posted:

in a short time will appear hugo proposition, as in every topics...

It already has 

To OP: If you read some previous articles you should go for 555PS or 555PS DR for NDX and NAP300 DR according to many experienced forum members. Go for both 

French Rooster posted:

in a short time will appear hugo proposition, as in every topics...

You suggested it! 

Hugo is consudered by many who have tried it on this forum to provide a worthwhile upgrade to NDX. Then there are the other DACs in the same family, Dave if you want the best (though some people's preferences differ).

But whether better to do that first or improve amplification at this stage is harder to judge, as will depend on how well the 250 does with those soeakers, on which others may have more soecific experience.

I was faced with a similar dilemma.. .and was close to getting a nap300dr.....then I spotted a nap500 for virtually same money as nap300dr....it was a no brainer...

.

But then you had to get a 552, maybe a bit of brain wouldn't hurt.

buy a Hugo 2, and also a Naim RCA-DIN cable.

job done.

alternatively - buy Superlumina DIN/XLR cable.

and then add Hugo 2, also with Naim RCA to DIN.

250 DR is really upto the job, and so is 282 with Supercap, really as good as it gets unless one gets to 552/500 level.

HANI,

It would be useful to know, which part of your system you think needs improving? 

Hani posted:

Hello NAIM lovers,

Planning an upgrade, current system is 250/282/SuperCap/NDX/Focal Sopra 2. What's next? My plan, 300DR. Any suggestion?  What about XPS For my NDX, or swap a 282 for 252.

Hani

i recently went from a 200 to 300 (no DR) so bigger step than your 250 -

personally I did not think the XPS added a whole lot to the NDX when I had a demo it at my dealers - the 555 on the other hand was superb - now back on the 300 - the difference in the system now is grip, seperation, and delivery of the 300 which I love - 250 & 300 are quiet different in delivery of the music

FYI rest of my system is NDX/282/HCDR/300/ B&W 805N

for me next move will be DR the 300 and 555,

you could go SH 300 then DR, and add in 555 for the same money as 300DR new? just a thought

Hani posted:

Hello NAIM lovers,

Planning an upgrade, current system is 250/282/SuperCap/NDX/Focal Sopra 2. What's next? My plan, 300DR. Any suggestion?  What about XPS For my NDX, or swap a 282 for 252.

I would ask what are you wanting to improve and what are dissatisfied with? That should give a clue on where to focus. The NDX is good, but like everything has limitations, and the limitations on my NDX are not resolved by adding a 555PS .. they make things worse for my ears... Is it speaker grip and drive for size of room or speaker? If so then the 300DR should as you suggest on your audition list. If it's resolution and finesse of your DAC, you can swap out the NDX for a NDS or use the exceptional NDX transport to drive another DAC such as NDAC or a none Naim DAC..

its far too easy to throw money at upgrades  and be disappointed.. do be wary of specific recommendations on this forum  to do X or Y... by all means use as a basis of ideas but you will need to Judge at your dealers or ideally at home... we all hear things differently.. and you can't assume the NDS for example will be best for you... or a non Naim DAC... or even a 300DR..

Simon

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

in a short time will appear hugo proposition, as in every topics...

You suggested it! 

Hugo is consudered by many who have tried it on this forum to provide a worthwhile upgrade to NDX. Then there are the other DACs in the same family, Dave if you want the best (though some people's preferences differ).

But whether better to do that first or improve amplification at this stage is harder to judge, as will depend on how well the 250 does with those soeakers, on which others may have more soecific experience.

perhaps the op wants to stay with a complete naim sound, so not sure hugo will be his cup of tea. But it may also be an upgrade on the ndx as you say.   His system is coherent and well balanced, so an xps would be the less risky choice ....the nds an expensive upgrade and other dac to be heard first , before buying....

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

in a short time will appear hugo proposition, as in every topics...

You suggested it! 

Hugo is consudered by many who have tried it on this forum to provide a worthwhile upgrade to NDX. Then there are the other DACs in the same family, Dave if you want the best (though some people's preferences differ).

But whether better to do that first or improve amplification at this stage is harder to judge, as will depend on how well the 250 does with those soeakers, on which others may have more soecific experience.

perhaps the op wants to stay with a complete naim sound, so not sure hugo will be his cup of tea. But it may also be an upgrade on the ndx as you say.   His system is coherent and well balanced, so an xps would be the less risky choice ....the nds an expensive upgrade and other dac to be heard first , before buying....

Perhaps, as you say, or perhaps he is open to all ideas. All we can and should do is present thoughts and experiences, and the OP must decide for himself. Hearing is certainly ideal, though of course not always possible and many people have bought all manner of kit satisfactorily without, usually based on adequate research:  much on my suggestion (and those of others) to read more about on this forum.

wenger2015 posted:

HANI,

It would be useful to know, which part of your system you think needs improving? 

 

 

Well, i guess more than one area needs improving, i mainly listen to metal and rock and occasionally to some jazz and dance music when friends are over, the room is not ideal for music listening since it is approximately 70 m2 and is broken down to two areas, an area where i have the NAIM system with sofas scattered around and the second area is where the pool table is, both areas are open with a arch in the middle. My 250 is quite old and a non DR, probably around 7 years old, i felt that i could do with a bit more amplification, and would like to get more details from the music i listen to, something like what i felt when i replaced the HiCap with a SuperCap.

My NAIM dealer does not have access to a lot of demo units or SH units, so it is rather hard to test in his shop or even to loan some equipment to try our before going for an upgrade, so i would usually go with his advice. NAIM equipment are hard to get in my neck of the woods. The dealer is amazing, a very nice person, but the market does not give him the luxury of having a lot of demo or SH units to test and play with.

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

in a short time will appear hugo proposition, as in every topics...

You suggested it! 

Hugo is consudered by many who have tried it on this forum to provide a worthwhile upgrade to NDX. Then there are the other DACs in the same family, Dave if you want the best (though some people's preferences differ).

But whether better to do that first or improve amplification at this stage is harder to judge, as will depend on how well the 250 does with those soeakers, on which others may have more soecific experience.

perhaps the op wants to stay with a complete naim sound, so not sure hugo will be his cup of tea. But it may also be an upgrade on the ndx as you say.   His system is coherent and well balanced, so an xps would be the less risky choice ....the nds an expensive upgrade and other dac to be heard first , before buying....

Perhaps, as you say, or perhaps he is open to all ideas. All we can and should do is present thoughts and experiences, and the OP must decide for himself. Hearing is certainly ideal, though of course not always possible and many people have bought all manner of kit satisfactorily without, usually based on adequate research:  much on my suggestion (and those of others) to read more about on this forum.

I do actually want to stick to NAIM, it is just a personal preference and an affection i have for the brand, but surely would appreciate any experiences shared by NAIM users and get some feedback from users who have gone through a similar path. Money can be easy spent with little or even maybe negative results, since audition is not really an option in my neck of the woods, i would have to go with my NAIM dealer professional advice and NAIM forum members who do provide a very valuable feedback. 

Thank you all for your valuable input, i will do more reading on the forum and get more user experiences.

That's quite a large room, so I can see why you might consider a power amp upgrade, especially given your music tastes. The convention is to upgrade the preamp first, but it's possible that for you, breaking this rule might work. Trouble is, the only way to find out is to try it in your room.

That is why my current mind is set on the following path (unless i get many reviews not to): step 1, 300DR (especially that my 250 is non DR), step 2, XPS/555 for the NDX, and then step 3, 252. In an imaginary world where budget is no constrain, i would go for all three at once

The 300 is a wonderful amp. Truly musical. If you like the less subtle presentation of the 250, front end upgrades would be my first audition priority. I'd be boosting the NDX or dropping an NDS in.  That way, something like a 300 later on will be able to truly give its best and be more fully appreciated.

Your ears may think different and it's your ears that count. Go listen to stuff. Take your time. Have some fun.

What a horrible conundrum for you

I have a similar system to yours except that I have a 300Dr and choose the CD path rather than streaming. My music tastes are more varied, although I did find myself buying 'Ok Computer' recently!

Having pursued the box route till January, I added the WitchHat Din to XLR in February. I found in June that the PL Lite on the SuperCap and NAPSC made the improvements the recent review said it would. Very good vfm. I got a bargin SL IC in March for the digital and am now trying the rest out. 

Don't underestimate the effect of the full SL loom. Yesterday the DIN to XLR loan arrived. People have recently suggested that small gains in SQ (their words) are not worth the money. Well the value is in the ears of the beholder. Take Adele's 'Hello' on '25'; last night the obvious difference to me was that her powerfully voice came through properly. We know now that her style of singing puts strain on her vocal cords, now it can all be heard rather than smoothed over. I think your music will benefit from good cables, which benefit all kinds of music really. The clarity I now get from all the instruments in the orchestra playing a symphony is amazing. At the Albert Hall recently even a tambourine stood out crystal clear against the rest of the orchestra. That is how it should be with your system, but poor cables get in the way. Once you have the cables, you can then decide whether you need better boxes. Note the 300DR needs two Din to XLR rather than one for the 250.

I bought the Sopra 2s in January as well. They are not difficult to drive and reveal improvements in the rest of the system immediately once run in. My lounge is half the size of yours, but I operate the speakers across the longer wall without them being symmetrically positioned and have many double doors and windows. It has not spoiled my listening.

Phil

While conventional thinking says that you should be using a 252 or better with a 300, there are some users who happily run 282/300 systems, so it could work for you. A couple of years ago I listened to a 272(bare) into a 300DR, and at the time I remarked that it seemed a little wild and untamed (possibly the amp showing the limitations of the source/pre) but it was still a lot of fun, unrefined, but a great system for loud party music. Your NDX/282/Supercap is, in my books, a substantial step up from a bare 272, so perhaps not such a mullet after all, given your system, room, and musical tastes?