Sell the 552? Oppurtunity cost? The anti-zoot thread

Popular thinking is that $100K in the broad stock market should provide $250-300 per month, almost forever.  Thinking this way enables you to set a savings goal, based on the income you think you will need if you ever retire.  If you are on-pace to that goal, do what you want with any leftovers.

The savings target is meaningless until you realize what it buys you.

Best,

Nick

IMHO, the decision on what Naim and other stereo equipment to buy should not be made on affordability. Just how much does one want to spend on a fairly high cost discretionary purchase? I'm very comfortable with the amount we spent on our 272DR  > XPS DR > 250 DR > SCM19 but the next step might cost twice as much and we wouldn't feel comfortable spending more above what is already a pretty nice system. I know some spend a lot more which is their choice of course but I think that affordability is the wrong criteria.

You cannot take your money to the grave with you.............I was talking over the fence one day last July to my neighbour, a couple of days later his wife knocked on the door to say he had passed away, heart attack. It was a bit of a life changing moment, having just retired and being the same age as my neighbour. I immediately booked a holiday to Tenerife and another to the U.S. Like many I have been waiting for a Uniti Nova, no intention of not enjoying myself to the full. Off for a short break next week.........life is for living.

Gazza posted:

You cannot take your money to the grave with you.............I was talking over the fence one day last July to my neighbour, a couple of days later his wife knocked on the door to say he had passed away, heart attack. It was a bit of a life changing moment, having just retired and being the same age as my neighbour. I immediately booked a holiday to Tenerife and another to the U.S. Like many I have been waiting for a Uniti Nova, no intention of not enjoying myself to the full. Off for a short break next week.........life is for living.

Very true. (At least the sentiment: you could actually have your money buried with you if you wish!)

Of course, everyone's ideas of what living means are different, as are available resources. So if to anyone person buying a 552 contributes to living more than whatever else you have to spend the money on then do it. If that stops you doing whatever else better constitutes living, then don't. End of discussion. In the case of this thread, that is, respectively, keep it/sell it.

Martin.L posted:

Richard Dane posted:

AFAIK, within a few percentage points, Naim tries to maintain a similar % margin right across the regular electronics range (i.e. I can't include Mu-So or Statement here as they post date my time at the factory and wrt the Mu-So may well be a different model anyway) - this covers not just costs of labour and materials but also R&D, marketing, and everything else that keeps the lights on and gives Naim the ability to invest in the future.  There's certainly no extra "Speculative" % margin piled on to the NAC552.

As to the cost, well, you can analyse the cost of any hifi and come to the conclusion that against your phone and a  pair of earbuds it's unnecessary or costs too much.  Rather than think of the cost or the price, consider the value, to you personally and nobody else.  If you love music, have a great collection and want to hear it at its best during the limited time you have, then what price is that?  We all have an idea of an answer and it will be different for everyone. 

An extremly precise statement.
Naim is all about "Go Deeper..."

You mean "dig deeper"?

I hate to tell MM that he will be very lucky to see 20k back on his 552. 2nd hand prices over on the fishy place are startling for 500 series components. 

As to the question asked in opening  post, thankfully I can afford to ignore it like most of MM rather ridiculous threads. 

.sjb

Mangomonkey, your thoughts are exactly like mine. 20k is a lot of money and if you're thinking that, you've already made a decision. 10 years ago, I aspired to own something like the 552, then came all the upgrades for the LP12 which completely blew away any performance gained by the pre-amp. I added Shahinian Hawks and took my mains to another level. I became very contented. In the last 5 years I could easily have afforded a new 552 with no second thoughts, but my interest became investing in my pension to save tax and make use of a share isa. This was the best decision I could have made, as I invested in the market dips and since then, the markets have rallied 30%. I look back and think, thank God I didn't waste it, as that's how I'd feel now if I'd bought a 552.

I used to have cds1, 82, 250,s and active sBL,s it was fantastic, but for many reasons including lack of new music, work pressures I never re-built it after a room renovation and eventually sold. Yes, I regret this..

I now have retired , fallen back in love with music, have the money to buy a 552 or higher, but have done the ladder climbing, and will just enjoy the new uniti series. Whatever level, or manufacturer, just enjoy. Yes, even a chord dac, ho ho.

JedT posted:

Bit of a side point but where are you finding investments that can confidently give you 8.3% REAL return over 20 years?

Sorry to be boring!

Pretty much all my money is parked in Microsoft, Apple, FB stocks and s&p500 etfs Since 2008 - j went all in right after the stock market crashed.

from that perspective, the 552 has already cost me more than twice it's retail price. I did use gains from stocks above to pay for the 552 in the first place, so all not that bad...

anyway, let's see ...

my dealer tells me not to sell - my cost was less than current dealer cost when I first purchased the unit...

that is not the way to look at it, not for me anyway.

for me hi-fi is a necessity, not a luxury.

but then I'm very happy with my 282/250.

analogmusic posted:

 

I notice that people don't question money spent on porches BMW or Mercedes, but somehow feel Naim 500 series is too much of a luxury ?

I have a nice 330i BMW and a 552. Next purchase could well be a new porch.

MangoMonkey posted:

JedT posted:

Bit of a side point but where are you finding investments that can confidently give you 8.3% REAL return over 20 years?

Sorry to be boring!

Pretty much all my money is parked in Microsoft, Apple, FB stocks and s&p500 etfs Since 2008 - j went all in right after the stock market crashed.

from that perspective, the 552 has already cost me more than twice it's retail price. I did use gains from stocks above to pay for the 552 in the first place, so all not that bad...

anyway, let's see ...

my dealer tells me not to sell - my cost was less than current dealer cost when I first purchased the unit...

In life there is no place for regrets or what-ifs - which it amounts to if you contemplate what you could have done with the money. We all make decisions every moment of every day, hopefully based on the best information available to us. If later we feel it was wrong, the thing to do is learn from that to make better judgements in the future. Of course with some things there can be the possibility of reversing something, though maybe only in part (as with secondhand value), but that is a decision for today based on the best information available now and nothing to domwith reflecting on the value an investment might have had if done instead.

So consider all the information you now have, and decide whether or not you want to retain the 552. The thoughts people have offerred here can be sifted and used as part of that decision if younwish, or discarded if you decide they are irrelevant.

that really is the end of the process

elkman70 posted:

analogmusic posted:

 

I notice that people don't question money spent on porches BMW or Mercedes, but somehow feel Naim 500 series is too much of a luxury ?

I have a nice 330i BMW and a 552. Next purchase could well be a new porch.

Good idea, in our climate it's good to have somewhere to take off your wellies.

analogmusic posted:

that is not the way to look at it, not for me anyway.

for me hi-fi is a necessity, not a luxury.

but then I'm very happy with my 282/250.

If you've ever been lying on the road after being hit by a car, seeing the white light and thinking that you don't want to die, you soon realise that hifi is not a necessity, or anything near. You soon find out what's important, and it sure as hell isn't expensive black boxes. 

Mango, I remember reading your various posts over the years, climbing the Naim ladder, and I mean this respectfully to you, but you don't seem to be content with purchases for very long. This is certainly not a dig at you, but it does seem that you yearn for something, then when you have it, it seems a bit of an anti climax. I have found that sometimes the best upgrade is actually a downgrade.

My take on why MM is never really happy is that he makes a purchase based on what everybody's else opinion is on the equipment, and not necessarily his own, remember, you have to please yourself before you can please anybody else.

Based on what I have seen and read on this forum, his situation is definitely not an isolated incident!

a year after our economic decline I sold a S/H 52 & 300s.  One box later and that money in the market as it was coming back.  I was more financially secure and when I had a surge of 'free' cash  got a great mid system.  I sure do love watching my stocks adding dividends  to the pot or reinvesting in more stock.

Sure do love great music and I'm sure my hearing isn't as good but I'm happy.  The last 2 times a dealer had some upgrade I said 'NO". He was a bit upset but I'm HAPPY, grinning ear to ear.

@Mudwolf -

I think you bought a Dac V1 from me, if I'm not mistaken. :-)

Richard Dane posted:

As to the cost, well, you can analyse the cost of any hifi and come to the conclusion that against your phone and a  pair of earbuds it's unnecessary or costs too much.  Rather than think of the cost or the price, consider the value, to you personally and nobody else.  If you love music, have a great collection and want to hear it at its best during the limited time you have, then what price is that?  We all have an idea of an answer and it will be different for everyone. 

There are no pockets in a shroud.

If your kids have the gift, a decent pre-loved Steinway might be a better investment, if you have to choose.  If you can have both, they may well complement each other.

I have been so-blessed.  I am an "old" dad-of-one.  I get Bach on the piano and Taylor Swift on the 555 -- Happy am I.

Nick

Quotes not really required on "old".

MangoMonkey posted:

not sure if it's super smart to have all those funds tied into the 552. Thinking of letting it go. The nac272/555/300 comes fairly close to the nds/555/552/300 - close enough at any rate.

thoughts?

dont really need the funds - but the 20K will be worth 100K in 20yrs... 

or 

the 20K, as part of a down payment for a second home, will be worth a hell of lot more due to leverage...

what does it mean to be able to 'afford' something?

Sell it... Buy Bitcoin... Wait 5 years.... Buy active Statement system. Easy peasy.

My grandfather bought our 1905 Steinway O in 1937 -- probably felt he spent too much, the rest of his life, to 1976.  What a treasure and blessing, now!

I cannot believe any electronic device has such potential; but Naim gear has the feeling of similar longevity, if not absolutely, if that matters.

Nick

NickSeattle posted:

If your kids have the gift, a decent pre-loved Steinway might be a better investment, if you have to choose.  If you can have both, they may well complement each other.

I have been so-blessed.  I am an "old" dad-of-one.  I get Bach on the piano and Taylor Swift on the 555 -- Happy am I.

Nick

Now that is about the best thing I have ever read on this forum!!!!

That is most wonderful to have in your house - a musical instrument that is played  (hopefully well!) for your enjoyment.  And it creates a context for consideration of expensive hifi - both in terms of cost relative to musical instruments, and a direct comparison of sound.