Sell the 552? Oppurtunity cost? The anti-zoot thread

Beachcomber posted:

I have a NAP 500, fed by NAC52.  Should I be dreaming of a 552?  or what about a passive pre-amp of some sort?

you should dream only if you got the money for it.

Otherwise just enjoy what you got. Spend some money on Superlumina cables if you got an itch that just won't go away.

The cables are very good, well worth the money.

analogmusic posted:

. Spend some money on Superlumina cables if you got an itch that just won't go away.

The cables are very good, well worth the money.

Nah, for the exact same sonic effect as SL, change to Nordost entry level cables, it accomplishes the same thing sonically compared to Naca5, at a fraction of the cost. Put another way, Naca5 is pretty hard to beat!!!

If I had that kind of disposable cash, cables would be the LAST place it would go. Reason being is that Naca5 is much better than what some here would have you believe. So are the standard Naim interconnects.

282/hicap/250 did the job for me too.

Don't have a 282 anymore, unfortunately, and there is no going back -  not even from the nap300 (nondr) to nap250DR.

Cables - the standard naim cables did the job just fine from 2000 to 2015 / so not even going there...

I did a lengthy home demo of SL vs NACA5. The difference was very clear to me. Different in a good way.

nigelb posted:

I did a lengthy home demo of SL vs NACA5. The difference was very clear to me. Different in a good way.

Same here

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

. Spend some money on Superlumina cables if you got an itch that just won't go away.

The cables are very good, well worth the money.

Nah, for the exact same sonic effect as SL, change to Nordost entry level cables, it accomplishes the same thing sonically compared to Naca5, at a fraction of the cost. Put another way, Naca5 is pretty hard to beat!!!

If I had that kind of disposable cash, cables would be the LAST place it would go. Reason being is that Naca5 is much better than what some here would have you believe. So are the standard Naim interconnects.

which nordost ones, can you please be more specific?

I have SL speaker cables and the upgrade from NAC5 was a no brainer.  Of course I'm of the opinion that cables are as important as any other facet in my audio systems.  I can't say that I'd buy SL again but I'd certainly upgrade from Naim's basic wire.  Just plug in an SL interconnect in place of the one that comes with Naim's amps.  Or maybe not because you won't be happy with what you have.

i used NAC5 for a long time until I felt my system deserved better.  NAC5 is a bargain if you own Naim gear and might be the last of Naim's wire I'd replace.  I could have probably found better than SL if I had the opportunity to demo cables.  I love the stuff from the Chord Company from C-Serve Ethernet to Super Sarum IC's.

The wire I have now is insanely priced and for most of my life I would have cringed at the thought of the cost (actually still do).  I've just reached a point where I have no obligations to anyone and money isn't a problem.  I'm sure I could put together a system as satisfying as the one I have now for much less money and I may do it (Harbeth, LFD, Chord, Aurender)  At least I can tell people I once had a full loom of Ansuz DTC cables.

There is a good saying l heard on the Bryston Forum.  "You don't always get what you pay for but you never get what you don't pay for".

Bud

NickSeattle posted:

  I get Bach on the piano and Taylor Swift on the 555 -- Happy am I.

Nick

What a waste of a great system, you need real music in your life to enjoy a front end of that caliber. Actually, I'm amazed that somebody would ever admit to listening to something that is so totally empty and soulless as Taylor Swift on an open forum.

Money, I guess doesn't account for good taste in music!!!!, And I do use the term "music" loosely in this instance.

Lighten up MM, it was a joke!!!!

Now go enjoy your 552 and ever so popular Kudos speakers!

badlands posted:

NickSeattle posted:

  I get Bach on the piano and Taylor Swift on the 555 -- Happy am I.

Nick

What a waste of a great system, you need real music in your life to enjoy a front end of that caliber. Actually, I'm amazed that somebody would ever admit to listening to something that is so totally empty and soulless as Taylor Swift on an open forum.

Money, I guess doesn't account for good taste in music!!!!, And I do use the term "music" loosely in this instance.

BADGIRL..

Just enjoy.....

Leatherneck posted:

I have SL speaker cables and the upgrade from NAC5 was a no brainer.  Of course I'm of the opinion that cables are as important as any other facet in my audio........

........There is a good saying l heard on the Bryston Forum.  "You don't always get what you pay for but you never get what you don't pay for".

Bud

I like that saying, Bud!

BTW, your 2014 HCDR is still holding it's own!

Allante93!

PS! Headed to Chicago, I will say hello to Tyler!

Don't bother! Why ? Well if you buy it in six months you will sell it and buy a nac 202, given the way you continually buy and then sell naim kit you must have lost thousands over the years.

One minute you go the range and then minute back down to the bottom and then repeat ad naseum. dont try and kid us that your dealer will sell you kit for x and six months later will buy it back off you for x.

such dealers do not exist for' if they did they would be quickly out of business.

[@mention:1566878603967877] - I haven't changed naim gear in a  years now (and even if I do ...). In any case, the vitriol is unwarranted.

badlands posted:

Lighten up MM, it was a joke!!!!

Now go enjoy your 552 and ever so popular Kudos speakers!

Alrite - deleted my reply.

jonnaim posted:

Don't bother! Why ? Well if you buy it in six months you will sell it and buy a nac 202, given the way you continually buy and then sell naim kit you must have lost thousands over the years.

One minute you go the range and then minute back down to the bottom and then repeat ad naseum.

 

Each to their own some pople very rarely change their kit, others follow a rigorous upgrade programme, others have a seemingly haphazard approach, and some seem forever to be unsatisfied and/or change their minds often. As with all else in this hobby none is right or wrong - and all bring varied discussion to the forum.

Innocent Bystander posted:

jonnaim posted:

Don't bother! Why ? Well if you buy it in six months you will sell it and buy a nac 202, given the way you continually buy and then sell naim kit you must have lost thousands over the years.

One minute you go the range and then minute back down to the bottom and then repeat ad naseum.

 

Each to their own some pople very rarely change their kit, others follow a rigorous upgrade programme, others have a seemingly haphazard approach, and some seem forever to be unsatisfied and/or change their minds often. As with all else in this hobby none is right or wrong - and all bring varied discussion to the forum.

Personally, I love the hype!

For those individuals like myself, who can't afford brand new Naim, we can get in at up to 40% off Msrp! 

And here's the sweet part, when it comes time to sell, our losses are minimized! 

Point n case, picked up an Brand new 250.2, open box, 5 year warranty!

The New DR Amps, just hit the Market, Mr John Doe, had to have the new version. 

I picked it up for 4K, Msrp was nearly 7K, in the US!

So you Gents, please don't stop the hype! LOL!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

jonnaim posted:

Don't bother! Why ? Well if you buy it in six months you will sell it and buy a nac 202, given the way you continually buy and then sell naim kit you must have lost thousands over the years.

One minute you go the range and then minute back down to the bottom and then repeat ad naseum.

 

Each to their own some pople very rarely change their kit, others follow a rigorous upgrade programme, others have a seemingly haphazard approach, and some seem forever to be unsatisfied and/or change their minds often. As with all else in this hobby none is right or wrong - and all bring varied discussion to the forum.

Personally, I love the hype!

For those individuals like myself, who can't afford brand new Naim, we can get in at up to 40% off Msrp! 

And here's the sweet part, when it comes time to sell, our losses are minimized! 

Point n case, picked up an Brand new 250.2, open box, 5 year warranty!

The New DR Amps, just hit the Market, Mr John Doe, had to have the new version. 

I picked it up for 4K, Msrp was nearly 7K, in the US!

So you Gents, please don't stop the hype! LOL!

Allante93!

Ahh...so you thought all the praise about the 250DR was hype? Or maybe you just ignored it. Or maybe disbelieved it. Don't get me wrong, the 250.2 is a good amp, I owned one. But the 250 DR is a great amp and that is why I upgraded. There you go, some hype for ya.

Sometimes, just sometimes, there is more to hype than just....err...hype.

As in most things in life, with Naim you get what you pay for, although I would accept that your returns might diminish the more you spend. This however does not hold true in 250DR territory IMHO.

Richard Dane posted:

AFAIK, within a few percentage points, Naim tries to maintain a similar % margin right across the regular electronics range (i.e. I can't include Mu-So or Statement here as they post date my time at the factory and wrt the Mu-So may well be a different model anyway) - this covers not just costs of labour and materials but also R&D, marketing, and everything else that keeps the lights on and gives Naim the ability to invest in the future.  There's certainly no extra "Speculative" % margin piled on to the NAC552.

As to the cost, well, you can analyse the cost of any hifi and come to the conclusion that against your phone and a  pair of earbuds it's unnecessary or costs too much.  Rather than think of the cost or the price, consider the value, to you personally and nobody else.  If you love music, have a great collection and want to hear it at its best during the limited time you have, then what price is that?  We all have an idea of an answer and it will be different for everyone. 

OP. This is your best answer IMO. 

I own 552/500 and wouldn't be without it because I use it a lot, I can (just about) afford to own it and it makes THE difference for me. However, I've also been greatly impressed by 272/250 and not with any 'for the money' qualification - it's wonderful music making, full stop. If you need to extract cash from your HiFi then it can be done. You alone can decide if the need for  'cash call'  trumps the last ounce of musical connection, but you don't need to be a HiFi pauper even if you choose to downgrade. Good luck!

nigelb posted:

Allante93 posted:

Personally, I love the hype!

For those individuals like myself, who can't afford brand new Naim, we can get in at up to 40% off Msrp! 

And here's the sweet part, when it comes time to sell, our losses are minimized! 

Point n case, picked up an Brand new 250.2, open box, 5 year warranty!

The New DR Amps, just hit the Market, Mr John Doe, had to have the new version. 

I picked it up for 4K, Msrp was nearly 7K, in the US!

So you Gents, please don't stop the hype! LOL!

Allante93!

Ahh...so you thought all the praise about the 250DR was hype? Or maybe you just ignored it. Or maybe disbelieved it. Don't get me wrong, the 250.2 is a good amp, I owned one. But the 250 DR is a great amp and that is why I upgraded. There you go, some hype for ya.

Sometimes, just sometimes, there is more to hype than just....err...hype.

As in most things in life, with Naim you get what you pay for, although I would accept that your returns might diminish the more you spend. This however does not hold true in 250DR territory IMHO.

As the gentleman said, to each his own.

As far as what I think:

I think, that way back in the Spring of 2015, Naim's non-DR Amps were pretty nice amps.

I think, Naca A 5, Speaker Cable was pretty nice.

I think, the Active 500 Club, was kick a**, Non-DR, Standard Interconnects!

Not saying, that the SL & DR technologies hasn't improved the SQ!

But if one isn't in to these new technologies, and can't afford Brand new Naim, they can save a lot of money, and still have a pretty nice System!

As far as the hype, The 250 DR is miles ahead of the 250.2.

That's what I like, and the Forum is great at it!!!

As far as hands on experience, I live across the pond, not to much Chord and SL home Demos.

Super Caps, Amps, etc...

Furthermore, I think my Primare Pre-30 > Arcam P1 Mono Blocks> Vienna Acoustics Baby Grands are pretty  nice!

To each his own, but if I could afford it, Active Naim, Chord Music, and 30K Speakers.

No Statement, but simple 500 Club!

But since I can't:

Cdx2>282>HCDR>(3 x 250)> Briks

Will have to do, for now!

Until a pre-loved SC & Brand new Snaxo 362, finds it's way to my Fraimlite!

That's All!

Allante93!

PS. A Brand New 2017 SL 500 Benz is probably Kick A**!

But an 2015, with 16K miles, probably ain't bad, but once again, no hands on experience!

Sorry!

Allante93 posted:

Leatherneck posted:

I have SL speaker cables and the upgrade from NAC5 was a no brainer.  Of course I'm of the opinion that cables are as important as any other facet in my audio........

........There is a good saying l heard on the Bryston Forum.  "You don't always get what you pay for but you never get what you don't pay for".

Bud

I like that saying, Bud!

BTW, your 2014 HCDR is still holding it's own!

Allante93!

PS! Headed to Chicago, I will say hello to Tyler!

Say hello for me.  He just got Aurender and I got the last one of his first shipment.  I still have the first piece of Naim kit I bought from him, a UnitiServe SSD that MM told me I needed.  

Glad to hear the PS is still good.  Naim is like Apple, it just works.

Bud

Mango, I think if you enjoy the 552, then by God, keep it. Gear this expensive should delight you. If it does, then stay delighted, if it doesn't, move on.

Opportunity cost can also be opportunity loss. Markets can just as easily go down, and for long periods, while inflation goes up. If that happens, you'll be glad you bought the 552 when you did and enjoyed it all those years instead of watching your investments go sideways while 552 equivalents tripled in price or disappeared from the market entirely.

I don't really get all this ... Hi fi will never be an investment.... you make get lucky and have a rare LS35A .... no it is for enjoying ... as is life. The 552 is no nivarna ... it's just a good preamp .... most who will buy will take a big loss .... buying second hand helps..... i bought one sh and  I am under no illusion I would not recover my cost .... the price of what i want...

Quite.

Richieroo posted:

I don't really get all this ... Hi fi will never be an investment.... you make get lucky and have a rare LS35A .... no it is for enjoying ... as is life. The 552 is no nivarna ... it's just a good preamp .... most who will buy will take a big loss .... buying second hand helps..... i bought one sh and  I am under no illusion I would not recover my cost .... the price of what i want...

I had a Rogers LS3/5a I paid $450 for new.  36 years later it sold for $1,000 in an hour.  I thought that was great until I found I could have got twice that.  I did much better with my Leica gear that sold after 36 years for 3-5 times what I paid for it.

Bud