What's your usual volume?

65-80dBA depending on mood/time etc.  

This translates to turquoise on the Hugo and and 8:30-10:30 on the amp. 

Between 8.30- 9.00 on pre (cd only here ).Any higher neighbour might come knocking on my door.

Many years ago a movie called Spinal Tap came out. The erstwhile hero gave an explanation of how "11" on his PA amp would mean that he could make the sound louder than having a "10" as his maximum. Because everyone knows that 11 was louder than 10. Simple.

The "volume" on the dial/slider/naim app has no indication as to actual sound pressue level, (ie: volume).

Get a spl meter, or download an app for your ipad/android thingy. Play your system and check the spl. It's the only way.

The difference between live music spl's and hifi is pretty confronting. I play my system, (172/200/s400's), reasonably loud. 

I just played a 24/192 file of Eagles "Life In The Fast Lane" at setting 55 on the 172. The spl at 2.4 metres from the speaker averaged 88dB and peaked at 96dB. Dynamic range was less than 20dB.

I then played a CD rip, (ie 16/44), of Grace Jones "Nightclubbing" and adjusted the volume to get a peak of 96dB. Average was now only 81dB. And dynamic range was 42dB. Volume control was at 52.

Now allow that the ipad appy thing was free and probably out +/- 3dB at least. Still proves nowt about quality or accuracy in sound reproduction. Just shows that I am a bit touched.

I used to have access to professional spl meters. My wife played decent piano. She measured 106dB peak at around 1 metre from the sound board/frame. I haven't measured my local jazz club but I think that a quartet in full flight might peak around 110 -115. It's a cosy venue and I often sit with my feet touching the stage. Brilliant.

But what does it prove? Not a lot.

Apart from 8-9 I'd say a pint or two of a decent IPA every other night that's enough volume for me....

steve95775 posted:

 

I used to have access to professional spl meters. My wife played decent piano. She measured 106dB peak at around 1 metre from the sound board/frame. I haven't measured my local jazz club but I think that a quartet in full flight might peak around 110 -115. It's a cosy venue and I often sit with my feet touching the stage. Brilliant.

But what does it prove? Not a lot.

 

It proves how loud you may have to play at home to mimic being close to the performers live...

out if interest did yoy measure the dynamic range of your wife's piano playing?

Innocent Bystander posted:

steve95775 posted:

 

I used to have access to professional spl meters. My wife played decent piano. She measured 106dB peak at around 1 metre from the sound board/frame. I haven't measured my local jazz club but I think that a quartet in full flight might peak around 110 -115. It's a cosy venue and I often sit with my feet touching the stage. Brilliant.

But what does it prove? Not a lot.

 

It proves how loud you may have to play at home to mimic being close to the performers live...

out if interest did yoy measure the dynamic range of your wife's piano playing?

I thought it was rather interesting also!

After all, that's why we do this!

Thanks for sharing that Steve!

Allante93!

Normally between "can you turn that down a bit" and "turn that bloody rubbish off"!

Using an iOS SPL meter app at a listening level of 38 on the 272 gave an average reading of 90db. iPhone mic is facing speakers laying on table about 5ft away. This is a little loud but sometimes feel the need to do so.

At a listening level of 34, it gave an average reading of 87db. This is more of a normal listening level.

 

It proves how loud you may have to play at home to mimic being close to the performers live...

out if interest did yoy measure the dynamic range of your wife's piano playing?

It was a long time ago, and back then we had VU meters which had a mechanical stop which only logged the maximum swing of the needle. Ideas about minimum and averages were just what you inferred by looking at the VU meter swing back and forth. But given that a silent room is about 50dB, I would suppose that the dynamic range was around 50-55dB.

These days with modern gadgets you get continuous logging of the spl, so getting averages, dymamic range etc is a snap. Also it really easy now to get an app which gives mapping of frequency response v positioning. The problem with using apps on iphones/tablets is that the tiny little microphones are not full frequency or particularly able to withstand high spl's.  They usually start to clip at 105dB or so, have a limited response below 60Hz and a huge roll off at high frequencies. So any results you get are purely a guide.  My friend is a sound engineer for live PA set ups, I hope one day to borrow some of his professional stuff.  my room is pretty good sounding, but I want to buy a decent floor rug. I intend to "test" the results with both my golden ears, (sadly now a little tarnished), and some real science, ie a sound analyzer.

I used to record the piano at home, The shop had a Revox B77 and some great Nakamichi and Audio Technica condenser microphones for me to play with. The playback through my tri-amps was both awesome and really deflating. The recordings were tonally nothing like the real piano experience in my lounge room. Clarity though was stunning. The piano and hifi were in the same room. I was reasonably adept at miking. But my recordings were hopeless.

Last Wednesday I was at Ellingtons Jazz Club here in Perth. A live quintet on stage, and I kid you not, my foot was resting on the saxophonist's fold back speaker. A Steinway Grand was about two metres away. The PA is good, but they only use amplification to project balanced sound to the back of the, (super cosy and tiny), venue, so when you are up close most of what you hear is direct. spl's were awesome, as was the sound. And Jamie Oelers, (the saxophonist and band leader), is great. I have some of his CD's. Very nicely recorded but the experience at home is vastly different. Not awful, but...

If speaker sensitivity were the yardstick for "audiophile quality", then Klipsch would be the be all and end all.

 They're not.

But, you could drive those damn things with a clock radio.

DrMark posted:

If speaker sensitivity were the yardstick for "audiophile quality", then Klipsch would be the be all and end all.

 They're not.

But, you could drive those damn things with a clock radio.

But when you have the yokels in the shop, and play the last bits of the 1812 Overture at high levels it's soooo satisfying making their ears bleed. The Klipsch have their place.

Lifted this from the web, Eastern Kentucky University Music department in the USA information to students and Faculty :-

Sound Levels of Music

Normal piano practice 60 -70dB

Fortissimo Singer, 3' 70dB

Chamber music, small auditorium 75 - 85dB

Piano Fortissimo 84 - 103dB

Violin 82 - 92dB

Cello 85 -111dB

Oboe 95-112dB

Flute 92 -103dB

Piccolo 90 -106dB

Clarinet 85 - 114dB

French horn 90 - 106dB

Trombone 85 - 114dB

Tympani & bass drum 106dB

Walkman on 5/10 94dB

Symphonic music peak 120 - 137dB

Amplifier, rock, 4-6' 120dB

Rock music peak 150dB

They are a bit loose with their specification, ie peak, average, RMS average etc, ie who knows, but pretty much on the mark. Have had a friend sing Opera at my table. It was a lot louder than 70dB as they suggest for Fortissimo Singer. When she sang in the back of the convertible the whole street knew it.

Consciousmess posted:

Bloody hell - so I regard the pre must be transparent, regardless, so turning the nob past 10 O'Clock is introducing unwanted electronics to the sound.

Hence I hypothesise sensitive speakers being more audiophile. Disagree? Come on, if the Statement has 730W, the 500 140W etc. Is the logic not quite obvious?

I studied Logic (& Ethics) and - this isn't it.

I haven't spend overmuch time studying bollocks but I feel confident in ......

steve95775 posted:

Lifted this from the web, Eastern Kentucky University Music department in the USA information to students and Faculty :-

Sound Levels of Music

Normal piano practice 60 -70dB

Fortissimo Singer, 3' 70dB

They are a bit loose with their specification, ie peak, average, RMS average etc, ie who knows, but pretty much on the mark. Have had a friend sing Opera at my table. It was a lot louder than 70dB as they suggest for Fortissimo Singer. When she sang in the back of the convertible the whole street knew it.

Agreed! I have heard Birgit Nilsson sing Elektra at Covent Garden, 70dB does not come close.

Adam Meredith posted:

Consciousmess posted:

Bloody hell - so I regard the pre must be transparent, regardless, so turning the nob past 10 O'Clock is introducing unwanted electronics to the sound.

Hence I hypothesise sensitive speakers being more audiophile. Disagree? Come on, if the Statement has 730W, the 500 140W etc. Is the logic not quite obvious?

I studied Logic (& Ethics) and - this isn't it.

I haven't spend overmuch time studying bollocks but I feel confident in ......

I see Stu is back on pfm, his spirit lives on here. Harsh, but fair!

Adam Meredith posted:

Consciousmess posted:

Bloody hell - so I regard the pre must be transparent, regardless, so turning the nob past 10 O'Clock is introducing unwanted electronics to the sound.

Hence I hypothesise sensitive speakers being more audiophile. Disagree? Come on, if the Statement has 730W, the 500 140W etc. Is the logic not quite obvious?

I studied Logic (& Ethics) and - this isn't it.

I haven't spend overmuch time studying bollocks but I feel confident in ......

Wonderful. It's a pity you can only 'like' a post once...

What's your usual volume?

Answer "Loud"      Forty years in the music industry has left it's toll... that constant ringing in the ears and the absolute need to connect with the music combine to mandate a volume that allows me to transend my surroundings and immerse myself in the musical experience.

(And besides that, it drowns out the neigjhbours banging on the wall.)

Roger

I wouldn't know if the neighbours were banging on the walls, the party walls here are 500mm of limestone!

Today I had a quick measurement while playing so e Sniff 'n' the Tears loud - not the loudest I ever play, but the loudest I might sustain for more than one album at a time, and a level I don't do more than perhaps one session in a week: the average level at my listening position was 85-90dB. (Measured with the phone app that I have assessed and believe to be reasonably accurate.)

I purchased a 552 ... and boy does thing drove an amp..... 9 o'clock is very loud .... 7 and 8 are normal .... nudge of the volume gingerly is the order of the day.....

Hmm, the 552 should have the same gain vs. volume setting response as a 252, 282 or 202; so the loudness at any given volume control setting should be the same for any of these 'Classic Series' pre-amps.

(However they all have 75mV input sensitivity which is unnecessarily high nowadays.)

I definitely don't have a usual volume,  I tend to listen to things as the mood fits.

BUT.... I would like some ideas/prompts/hints from people who know more than me.

I have an Atom and am playing through Intro2's.  I am totally a noob when it comes to volume, watts, db, fluffy bunnies and tame goats.  My question is... I have my atom limited to 85 (volume level on the app)  I have listened to music at 60 and enjoyed it while folding washing and doing chores.  Am I in danger of damaging the Atom or the intros by playing music loud?  if so how loud can/should I play my tunes?

Yours sincerely 

Sir TanglenoobNZ

TangleNZ posted:

<snip>

I have an Atom and am playing through Intro2's.  I am totally a noob when it comes to volume, watts, db, fluffy bunnies and tame goats.  My question is... I have my atom limited to 85 (volume level on the app)  I have listened to music at 60 and enjoyed it while folding washing and doing chores.  Am I in danger of damaging the Atom or the intros by playing music loud? 

Unless it's distorting (or at least sounding very harsh) you won't be damaging your system at all; however if played for significant lengths of time at high volume, what you are at risk of damaging is your hearing!

(And that of the goats / fluffy bunnies!)