New for Old?

Not having made the same step up, I cannot say. But if you have chrome bumper gear that has recently been serviced, I'd suggest you just buy more records and enjoy what you have - after all, it's a fairly classic set-up you have there.

OC, there's not too much wrong with the old CB NAC42.5, Hicap and NAP110, although the latest pre-amps and power amps have taken things on a bit.  But this combo works so well with Kans in a small space.

My own view is that the TE Microgroove+ may well be the odd man out here.  It may just be me but while I liked the original TE designed ISO, I really didn't like the later HR version.  And when I spent some time with the big TE Groove stage, it left me cold - so resolving, with amazing detail, yet way too cerebral, the complete opposite of a Naim Prefix/Supercap to which it was being compared which was so meaty, musically and emotionally compelling. It seemed to me that in seeking out ever more resolution, something really good that was there in the original ISO was being left behind. The Naim Superline was designed to offer the best of both worlds - resolution while keeping intact emotion - so that's certainly something you should hear.

Anyway, due to your slightly unusual listening priorities (mostly headphones) I think the phone stage and pre-stage will make the most difference here, so you should take some time and have a chat to a good Naim dealer, particularly one well versed with an analogue front end.

Thanks Richard.

You say the latest gear have taken things on a bit and in general terms this is what I'm trying to get a grip of prior to auditioning.My "unusual" listening priorities are tempered by the fact that my small block of flats are not very sound-proof. Fortunately the current crop of co-residents are quite considerate and we have an unwritten agreement to keep sound levels down.That doesn't stop me having a blast with the Kans when the rest of them are out!

Interested in your comments re. the TE phono stage. I have to admit I bought this somewhat on the hoof so to speak so I haven't really compared it to other offerings. That said it's portable enough to enable a comparison to be made against a Superline that you mention.

Where to find  a good Naim dealer well versed in analogue front ends....aye, there's the rub! 

Old Cove posted:

 Where to find  a good Naim dealer well versed in analogue front ends....aye, there's the rub! 

 

That is not at all difficult. Try near Leicester, for one....

Or given your location, a long-standing dealer in North London would be happy to help I'm  sure.

Not difficult but distant by over a 100 miles, However, I have had some initial dialogue with C. regarding bespoke racks so I might end up making the trip. 

Hi & welcome to the forum

Thats a rather nice turntable you have there, well done. I was in a similar situation with a 62/110 although my 110 was upgraded to a 140 by Naim some years ago.

So, I too have Mk1Kans & recently changed to a NAP200 to me this seemed like a big step up, the 200 controls the Kans really well, I then found an ex demo 202 at a good price, so I went for it. The improvement is quite remarkable & the only downside having to buy a stageline for the phono stage from my LP12 in addition as this is now separate and connects to a powered input for the satgeline Aux2. Anyway, the demo went well & once set up at home we were well pleased when my wife confirmed 'this sounds really good ' amongst other praises - which it did, I knew I'd done the right thing. That was a few weeks ago & Im still itching to play stuff on it.

I think some sort of furniture wold be a good idea, the Fraims are a bit OTT price wise but HiFi Racks & Quadraspire seem to be well recomended so thats probably my next step.

Old Cove posted:

Thanks Richard.

You say the latest gear have taken things on a bit and in general terms this is what I'm trying to get a grip of prior to auditioning.My "unusual" listening priorities are tempered by the fact that my small block of flats are not very sound-proof. Fortunately the current crop of co-residents are quite considerate and we have an unwritten agreement to keep sound levels down.That doesn't stop me having a blast with the Kans when the rest of them are out!

Interested in your comments re. the TE phono stage. I have to admit I bought this somewhat on the hoof so to speak so I haven't really compared it to other offerings. That said it's portable enough to enable a comparison to be made against a Superline that you mention.

Where to find  a good Naim dealer well versed in analogue front ends....aye, there's the rub! 

 

i had before naim stageline with hicap and then microgroove +, which for me sounded better.

The superline / hicap is better, but 3 times more expensive.

If you can afford to buy it I think 282/HiCapDR/200DR (or even nonDR) would be a fantastic 'last' system for you I would also think about Richards suggestion re: phono stage if possible,  even something less exotic maybe Prefix without sperate PSU or even an older HiCap.

I would advise you go down the used route there are some fantastic used Naim dealers that would take your old kit as part ex and help you through the whole process. I dont know the forums policy regarding recommendation's but  the UK's leading used Naim dealership  will see you right, I have had several dealings with them myself and cannot praise them enough.

Wow, that sounds like a cracking system. LP12 Ekos SE1/Keel/ Kandid, don't know the other front end bits, I'd swear on Urika and Tranq. The 42.5/HiCap/110 combo is wunnerful and it took 52/SC/135 to better it musically for me. As has been said speak to a good dealer. Source first has been a lesson learnt twice for me.

OC, You'd want to sex up the preamp wouldn't you, say NAC252 and obligatory SC. You could stick with the existing NAP, maybe.

I'd certainly splash out on the Tiger Paw Tranquility. If you get to Cymbiosis they'll be able to demonstrate why. Excellent value for money upgrade. Amp wise I think you might be in for a bit of a shock. Newer amps are quite different I feel and as much as I loved my old CB 32.5/HC/250 into Kans I agree they have moved on. Whether that's great value though is up to you. I had a fond spot for the 140 but not sure if it's much of a step up from the 110. With that front end I would really recommend listening to a Superline and HICAP DR or better still Supercap. Good luck with the auditions. Oh, and look at the Simrack option available from Cymbiosis too. Not too bulky or expensive in comparison to others. Apologies fot the rambling reply.

I have a friend who converted to Naim after a weekend evening at my house.  He found a lightly used Nait2 online and could not be happier.    It elevates the sound of all his older gear, and he has built a streaming system around it to go with his modest turntable.    Your system is already well ahead of his.    Based on my experience recently, bringing your turntable current as to cartridge, phono stage, loading plugs, and tune up can pay a huge benefit.  

Naim has much in common with Porsche.  The new ones are very nice.   The recent models you can afford are much nicer than you are used to.    The older ones, if well maintained, are a treat, and better than the new ones most people drive.   Just figure out what your priorities should be and go for it.    A dealer can help with this.

You might look at an Isoblue Rack.   We found one second hand and it makes all the difference in our Nait XS system at a great value. 

OC, 

I owned a 42.5/hicap/110 for nearly 20 years, then upgraded to 202/200 but kept the CB hicap. I was "blown away" and the slippery slope started 

SAT posted:

Wow, that sounds like a cracking system. LP12 Ekos SE1/Keel/ Kandid, don't know the other front end bits, I'd swear on Urika and Tranq. The 42.5/HiCap/110 combo is wunnerful and it took 52/SC/135 to better it musically for me. As has been said speak to a good dealer. Source first has been a lesson learnt twice for me.

interesting about source first, can you please share details? My experience too, although there is a distinct sonic jump from the unregulated amp NAP 202/200 to 282/250 DR

Thanks to all that I've not replied to individually for your input. in response to some of the points made:

Yes, the vinyl resurgence ( wonder how long it will last) has been a good chance to add to the collection.

I've had no problems with the 2nd hand kit in my system and would always consider it providing it comes from a reputable dealer. Not sure if I'm brave enough to buy from a private seller.

Have made tentative enquiries about the Simrak and it appears one could be made to my spec. Had not really considered the Superline but from what's being said it's clearly worth a listen.

Liked the Porsche analogy. Have checked out the IsoBlue but unfortunately a tad too wide.

The Tranq. is certainly an interesting proposition. My LP12 is not due for a service but when it is  I will confer with my fettler . Meantime, pity Cymbiosis would be a bit of a hike for me. 

Just buy a lovely pre-loved Nac72. It blows away the Nac42.5 - I know, I did the upgrade :-)  The Nap110 is damned good and doesn't let the side down. Just sit back at enjoy. Honestly. If you get the itch, then LATER move to a Nap250 for better control over your speakers - but IMHO it's not so important.

^ You say that Woy, but chap's in a small room and uses headphones a lot which is why I suggested splashing big time on a pre and possibly sticking with the 110. And yes, I know the NAC72 is lovely.

If you do begin to think seriously about the phono stage then you really should audition the Urika as well as the Superline. You're halfway there as you already have the Radikal. It also has advantages in a small room as it doesn't add to the racking requirements.

Clive

Years ago I let one of my friends have a surplus 42.5/110 amp which he used with a mid-level Yamaha CD player and some reconditioned Advent speakers. One of the best entry level naim systems I have heard....but one day for fun I brought around my 52/135s and inserted them into his system with the 52 first. The 52/110 combo unlocked the magic, while the 135s just advanced it a bit over the 110. The 42.5/Supercap/110 was also very good, but lacked the sheer enthusiasm and swing that the full-blown 52 did with ease. 

Old Cove posted:

The Tranq. is certainly an interesting proposition. My LP12 is not due for a service but when it is  I will confer with my fettler . Meantime, pity Cymbiosis would be a bit of a hike for me. 

Peter's a travelin' man -- might be worth checking if he's headed your way anytime soon. I'd second the Urika recommendation -- it was made to go with your cartridge, and I believe that cartridge/phono stage synergy is key.

As for the amps, I have a 282/250.2 combo that I love and can't really imagine moving on from. You could keep your CB Hicap to power the 282. (I've got a fettled one and it's worked out just great in this application.)

NFG posted:

Hi & welcome to the forum

Thats a rather nice turntable you have there, well done. I was in a similar situation with a 62/110 although my 110 was upgraded to a 140 by Naim some years ago.

So, I too have Mk1Kans & recently changed to a NAP200 to me this seemed like a big step up, the 200 controls the Kans really well, I then found an ex demo 202 at a good price, so I went for it. The improvement is quite remarkable & the only downside having to buy a stageline for the phono stage from my LP12 in addition as this is now separate and connects to a powered input for the satgeline Aux2. Anyway, the demo went well & once set up at home we were well pleased when my wife confirmed 'this sounds really good ' amongst other praises - which it did, I knew I'd done the right thing. That was a few weeks ago & Im still itching to play stuff on it.

I think some sort of furniture wold be a good idea, the Fraims are a bit OTT price wise but HiFi Racks & Quadraspire seem to be well recomended so thats probably my next step.

I think this post relates to the OP pretty well since the speakers are the same (Mk1 Kans) and amp wise, almost the same too (62/110). The 202/200 gets neglected a lot. Although the 282/250 is somewhat superior giving a more dynamic and bolder sound, the 202/200 is pretty balanced albeit sounding flatter(more neutral?). There are few who actually prefer the presentation of the 202/200 over 282/250 which is often accused as being too spotlit. If budget is an issue, the 202/200/HCDR/NAPSC is worth considering.

analogmusic posted:

interesting about source first, can you please share details? My experience too, although there is a distinct sonic jump from the unregulated amp NAP 202/200 to 282/250 DR

Removed my bit for brevity. When I first bought my 42/110 it was with LP12/Ittok/Trak and Monitor Audio speakers which were more affordable than Kans, definitely source first and a joy to my ears. In the 30 odd years since I've made many upgrades but some recent improvements to the LP12 and adding a 555ps to my ndac (thanks Peter) have put me in a very happy place. The 42/110 is a lovely amp and I'm delighted with my 52/135s but never got vfm from them until I got the front end right.

Best wishes

Steve

ryder. posted:

NFG posted:

Hi & welcome to the forum

Thats a rather nice turntable you have there, well done. I was in a similar situation with a 62/110 although my 110 was upgraded to a 140 by Naim some years ago.

So, I too have Mk1Kans & recently changed to a NAP200 to me this seemed like a big step up, the 200 controls the Kans really well, I then found an ex demo 202 at a good price, so I went for it. The improvement is quite remarkable & the only downside having to buy a stageline for the phono stage from my LP12 in addition as this is now separate and connects to a powered input for the satgeline Aux2. Anyway, the demo went well & once set up at home we were well pleased when my wife confirmed 'this sounds really good ' amongst other praises - which it did, I knew I'd done the right thing. That was a few weeks ago & Im still itching to play stuff on it.

I think some sort of furniture wold be a good idea, the Fraims are a bit OTT price wise but HiFi Racks & Quadraspire seem to be well recomended so thats probably my next step.

I think this post relates to the OP pretty well since the speakers are the same (Mk1 Kans) and amp wise, almost the same too (62/110). The 202/200 gets neglected a lot. Although the 282/250 is somewhat superior giving a more dynamic and bolder sound, the 202/200 is pretty balanced albeit sounding flatter(more neutral?). There are few who actually prefer the presentation of the 202/200 over 282/250 which is often accused as being too spotlit. If budget is an issue, the 202/200/HCDR/NAPSC is worth considering.

Thank you for your positive comment, I originally used a 42/110 combo from about 1987-90 ish for quite a while so know the 202/200 would be quite a good improvement, although the OP states they have a small room, however Kans do benefit from a fairly good amp to drive them.

Struth!.........more suggestions to consider.........thanks all.

I have to plead ignorance of 52/72's but doubtless the Forum contains useful info. Amps of that era passed me by because of  other priorities at the time and being happy with my existing kit. Another factor was that my local dealer, Audio Venue, from whom I received good service closed down.

Point taken about the Urika and I like the fact it gets rid of another box/boxes. My existing phono worked well with my previous cartridge, a Benz Wood, and seems to be doing OK with the Kandid but I haven't yet compared it to anything else.

Seems like I have a bit more auditioning to do than I originally bargained for.