Used Supernait or new XS2

rainsoothe posted:

Welcome to the dark side

Dark side... damn it

SteveJansen posted:

I had been saving for some time and managed to pick up a s/h SN2. Can't stop smiling - it's a fantastic amp! I previously had LFD Zero, Nait XS1 and original Supernait in this system over the past 5 or more years. The SN2 has heaps of boogie, yet is much more refined and revealing than the previous model for me. I'm using a Chord 2Qute DAC with Naim DVD5 as transport for CDs and old, but fun Epos ES14 speakers.

I know exactly what you mean about the "smiling" bit SteveJ.. the SN2 really does a bring a smile to my face, very strange... 

Yes it does "boogie" very well and with a refinement that I never expected to be honest... especially after my valve amp smoothies  .. 

A friend of mine has Epos ES22's and they are very good indeed

SteveJansen posted:

I had been saving for some time and managed to pick up a s/h SN2. Can't stop smiling - it's a fantastic amp! I previously had LFD Zero, Nait XS1 and original Supernait in this system over the past 5 or more years. The SN2 has heaps of boogie, yet is much more refined and revealing than the previous model for me. I'm using a Chord 2Qute DAC with Naim DVD5 as transport for CDs and old, but fun Epos ES14 speakers.

Which version of LFD Zero? I have tried the LFD Zero LE III many years ago though I did not compare it directly with the Nait XS or other Naim amps which I now own. I find the LFD to be more transparent and neutral than the Naim but the Naim has the edge in bass and rhythm. As you say, the boogie factor. The major drawbacks of the LFD to me, are build quality (cheap looking front plate and crude construction of the internal wiring and circuit board, looking very messy inside the box), and finally the lack of a remote control. Though I have to say sound-wise the LFD is actually quite good. I noticed the price of the latest LFD Zero MkVI is now even higher than the Supernait 2. No matter how good the LFD sounds it is poor value to me judging from the build quality and lack of remote viewpoint.

Seems it may be a while before LFD conquer the lifestyle market 

ryder. posted:

SteveJansen posted:

I had been saving for some time and managed to pick up a s/h SN2. Can't stop smiling - it's a fantastic amp! I previously had LFD Zero, Nait XS1 and original Supernait in this system over the past 5 or more years. The SN2 has heaps of boogie, yet is much more refined and revealing than the previous model for me. I'm using a Chord 2Qute DAC with Naim DVD5 as transport for CDs and old, but fun Epos ES14 speakers.

Which version of LFD Zero? I have tried the LFD Zero LE III many years ago though I did not compare it directly with the Nait XS or other Naim amps which I now own. I find the LFD to be more transparent and neutral than the Naim but the Naim has the edge in bass and rhythm. As you say, the boogie factor. The major drawbacks of the LFD to me, are build quality (cheap looking front plate and crude construction of the internal wiring and circuit board, looking very messy inside the box), and finally the lack of a remote control. Though I have to say sound-wise the LFD is actually quite good. I noticed the price of the latest LFD Zero MkVI is now even higher than the Supernait 2. No matter how good the LFD sounds it is poor value to me judging from the build quality and lack of remote viewpoint.

I had an early Zero (facelifted from 1st design I think). I really enjoyed it, and it was one of the best vfm amps I've encountered. Locally they sell for between £175 and £350 second hand, compared to around £750 for a NaitXS mk1 or £2000 for my Supernait. While aesthetics were obviously a low priority, I think the basic circuit idea is a winner, and LFD are very musical amps. The LFD even did a few things that the Naits couldn't do in some areas.

Naim will always be my favourite SS amps, and most others leave me cold. But, there are a few amp designs I've owned that while not as strong rhythmically as Naim, still are very musical and involving to me: LFD, Sugden, Lavardin, Leben to name a few.

Nina posted:

SteveJansen posted:

I had been saving for some time and managed to pick up a s/h SN2. Can't stop smiling - it's a fantastic amp! I previously had LFD Zero, Nait XS1 and original Supernait in this system over the past 5 or more years. The SN2 has heaps of boogie, yet is much more refined and revealing than the previous model for me. I'm using a Chord 2Qute DAC with Naim DVD5 as transport for CDs and old, but fun Epos ES14 speakers.

I know exactly what you mean about the "smiling" bit SteveJ.. the SN2 really does a bring a smile to my face, very strange... 

Yes it does "boogie" very well and with a refinement that I never expected to be honest... especially after my valve amp smoothies  .. 

A friend of mine has Epos ES22's and they are very good indeed

 

Yes Nina, they really got the ingredients right for the SN2, although I still have valve amps too. They have a different set of strengths that I really enjoy also.

The combination of boogie and refinement was what I had been searching for with many years of olive ownership. I didn't make it past 82/250, but this SN2 is much more universal and copes far better with lesser recordings. It's an absolute pleasure to listen to music with.

SteveJansen posted:

Nina posted:

SteveJansen posted:

 

Yes Nina, they really got the ingredients right for the SN2, although I still have valve amps too. They have a different set of strengths that I really enjoy also.

The combination of boogie and refinement was what I had been searching for with many years of olive ownership. I didn't make it past 82/250, but this SN2 is much more universal and copes far better with lesser recordings. It's an absolute pleasure to listen to music with.

 

I think you are right there SteveJ, they did get the ingredients right with the SN2.   I will swap back to the XS2 soon and will report back with my thoughts, once the XS2 is in and 'warmed up' a bit

Well I now have the XS2 back in the system..... very interesting indeed... 

I like both the XS2 and SN2, damn it

It makes it very hard to decide which one to keep as they both sound so good to me..

Nina posted:

Well I now have the XS2 back in the system..... very interesting indeed... 

I like both the XS2 and SN2, damn it

It makes it very hard to decide which one to keep as they both sound so good to me..

 

Hah! The same problem I have with the TQB2 and the Naca5. Which is why I'm keeping both for now. Something thells me it's harder with amps, though...

I am looking at Naim cd players and I can get a great price on an ex dem CD5 XS or I can get a much older CDX2 for about the same price so can anyone tell me if I got the much older CDX2 if it would be basically reliable or do they suffer from any known problems?

The CDX2 is fully serviceable. It may be an idea to decide on your amp and then get the CD player that matches. I’m in a minority but prefer the CD5x (with flatcap) to a CDX2, which always sounds a bit artificial to me, though better with an XPS. If you preferred the Nait XS and got the CD5XS, a flatcap XS would power them both. Too many options. 

Based on dems, my feeling is that the CD5XS runs the older CDX2 fairly close because of the development Naim did in the intervening years.

IMO best not to get distracted by power supplies. It's perfectly possible to enjoy coherent systems consisting of CDX2 and SN2 or CD5XS and XS2 without them. The important point is to concentrate on now. Which is moving you the most? Which is engaging you the most?

Christopher_M posted:

Seems it may be a while before LFD conquer the lifestyle market 

And yet, Stereophile's Sam Tellig has been reiterating for ages that the LFD Zero is the best integrated he's ever heard. I wonder – as I do when I see an ugly house – if building a pretty thing is so much more expensive than building an ugly one. Not counting those who intentionally make their products bad looking because they don't want their masterpieces to be mistaken for lifestyle crap...

Christopher_M posted:

Based on dems, my feeling is that the CD5XS runs the older CDX2 fairly close because of the development Naim did in the intervening years.

IMO best not to get distracted by power supplies. It's perfectly possible to enjoy coherent systems consisting of CDX2 and SN2 or CD5XS and XS2 without them. The important point is to concentrate on now. Which is moving you the most? Which is engaging you the most?

Christopher_M posted:

Based on dems, my feeling is that the CD5XS runs the older CDX2 fairly close because of the development Naim did in the intervening years.

IMO best not to get distracted by power supplies. It's perfectly possible to enjoy coherent systems consisting of CDX2 and SN2 or CD5XS and XS2 without them. The important point is to concentrate on now. Which is moving you the most? Which is engaging you the most?

Thanks Christopher

I am pretty sure I will never go down the external power supply route.  I am quite happy with either of the amps just as they are

I just cannot say which amp "moves" me or "engages" me the most at the moment

I just have a sneaky suspicion that the XS2 might be a tad more musical than the SN2 but I also know that my memory of the SN2 might be completely wrong... 

I will give it a couple of days and then swap back to the SN2 just to clarify and remind me

I would be more than happy to live with either amp in my system, I love them both

I am not into CD players (dinosaur techonology in my view), but I did wonder, from a purely "academic" point of view, how the CD5XS plus Naim Dac compares to the CDX2 bare. Similar price (I think), similar sound? Or does the Naim Dac (NDS-level technology) race ahead...

Hi,

Perhaps maybe you have gone past the limitations with your present source and loudspeakers too? 

This might explain why there isn't much in it through your current system at the moment. I mean, the SN2 ought to reflect it's price over the XS2 in terms of performance at the very least (one would think). I don't think Naim are in the business of making it's more expensive components like a SN2 sounding 'lesser' than it's cheaper siblings, it would be most odd if they did.

As others have suggested above, it all depends on where you want to be in the future. You say you're not that interested in optional PSUs so, perhaps the XS2 is where it's at for you at this present stage?

Obviously things will be different if you were to slot in a CDX2 now,  a SN2 makes much more sense then, as is a change of speakers too. 

Just a thought... ( without trying to sound condescending).

You may be right there Stephen about my source being a limitation however I don't think I said there wasn't "much in it" between the XS2 and SN2, they are both lovely sounding amps but they are different sounding

I may well go for a CDX2 whichever amp I keep but as you say the SN2 would make more sense with it

You mention me changing my speakers as well and I was wondering if you've heard Living Voice speakers and if so was that using Naim amps?

Classic argument...

This box gives me a thrill vs this box sounds better

Dont confuse what you think you should be hearing (commensurate with price tag) with how what you are hearing makes you feel. That  argument is bullsh*t and always has been

Music should be fun not an academic exercise in which is "best". Which lights you up?

Just my 2c

The lv can deal with the sn2 and above easily.

Nina posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Based on dems, my feeling is that the CD5XS runs the older CDX2 fairly close because of the development Naim did in the intervening years.

IMO best not to get distracted by power supplies. It's perfectly possible to enjoy coherent systems consisting of CDX2 and SN2 or CD5XS and XS2 without them. The important point is to concentrate on now. Which is moving you the most? Which is engaging you the most?

Thanks Christopher

I am pretty sure I will never go down the external power supply route.  I am quite happy with either of the amps just as they are

I just cannot say which amp "moves" me or "engages" me the most at the moment

I just have a sneaky suspicion that the XS2 might be a tad more musical than the SN2 but I also know that my memory of the SN2 might be completely wrong... 

I will give it a couple of days and then swap back to the SN2 just to clarify and remind me

I would be more than happy to live with either amp in my system, I love them both

 

Actually I'm with you on this one - I found the SN2 more mature and with more scale, but I liked the boogie on the XS2 better. Hope this doesn't influence you into a bad decision.

Daft Apeth posted:

This box gives me a thrill vs this box sounds better

Dont confuse what you think you should be hearing (commensurate with price tag) with how what you are hearing makes you feel. That  argument is bullsh*t and always has been

Music should be fun not an academic exercise in which is "best". Which lights you up?

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Many people have commented on the fun factor of lower end Naim boxes such a the Unitiqute and 5i series, using terms like 'bouncy puppy' as I recall! This is great for casual listening, but it can't compete with the way a well set up Classic system draws you into the music in a way which is less fatiguing on the ears, and ultimately much more rewarding when you're in the mood. 

Nina

Not sure what source your using to judge the amps

But you really need a homedem of both the CD5xs and CDX2 if possible

Only then can you decide which combo to own, in fact a SN2 with CD5xs is not bad either, so plenty of options

Perol posted:

Not sure what source your using to judge the amps [?]

Nina, from near the bottom of p1:

"I only use cd as my front end, which comprises of a Pioneer PD-S505 Precision (the Tom Evans modified one) used as a transport into an Audio Note DAC One 1X Signature"

Christopher_M posted:

Perol posted:

Not sure what source your using to judge the amps [?]

Nina, from near the bottom of p1:

"I only use cd as my front end, which comprises of a Pioneer PD-S505 Precision (the Tom Evans modified one) used as a transport into an Audio Note DAC One 1X Signature"

Thanks Chris

Guess that performance will be far from either Naim players hence no decision should be taken unless she intend to keep that source ?