Used Supernait or new XS2

badlands posted:

ryder. posted:

If I am not mistaken the XS2 has received almost 100% votes of getting an improved sound with the Hicap DR. However, that's not the case with the Supernait 2.

OK, it's 98% that actual owners of the SN2 says unequivocally the sound improves with the addition of the HiCap DR!

That's refreshing to know. I had the impression it's 70-80% of actual owners who prefer the Supernait 2 with the Hicap DR.

In my experience the SN2 is more focused, has more aplomb and will impress your brother in law more than the XS2. On the other hand the XS2 is possibly more nimble, softer and more forgiving with a wider range of recordings. I found the XS2 with a third party PSU upgrade to be closer to the SN2 than to the XS2 without PSU upgrade. After two weeks I ended up returning the PSU. I live in a two bedroom flat and just found the bass to be a bit overwhelming. My brother in law was impressed though.

Christopher_M posted:

Thanks Nina. In which case I would seriously consider selling your pimped CD player and all associated cables and demming a Naim CD5XS player, a decent support and some Naca5 speaker wires with your Nait XS2, instead of worrying about a SN2. If nothing else, Naim is about synergy.

I write as someone whose life before Naim was the valve world of perpetual audio tweakery. I've found it far easier to buy into the Naim sound and put the hi-fi buffery behind me, just enjoy the power of music and live my life.

C.

Thanks Christopher

So do you think the CD5XS would better my current transport and Audio Note Dac?  And in the same vain the NACA5 against my TQ Ultra Black and my 'fancy' interconnects against a standard Naim interconnect?  Certainly if I sold all my current cables, Dac and transport it would probably pay for the CD5XS

You seem to speak from experience as you had valve amps before

I've just been listening to Antonio Forcione Live!, on the Naim label, and was very impressed

The only reason I mentioned the SN2 is I didn't think I would enjoy the XS2 as much as I do and thought why not get the top integrated that Naim produce for just more of the same.  I will never buy a pre/power setup as I like one box

Nina, I had the original XS for 7 years before upgrading to the SN2 just this month. There is plenty to enjoy with the amp you have, no reason to rush things. Try the rega speakers you might prefer that combination over the xs2/lv speakers.

Iconoclast posted:

In my experience the SN2 is more focused, has more aplomb and will impress your brother in law more than the XS2. On the other hand the XS2 is possibly more nimble, softer and more forgiving with a wider range of recordings. I found the XS2 with a third party PSU upgrade to be closer to the SN2 than to the XS2 without PSU upgrade. After two weeks I ended up returning the PSU. I live in a two bedroom flat and just found the bass to be a bit overwhelming. My brother in law was impressed though.

I concur with "impress your whoever.." part, certainly. SN2 may have oodles of drive and some other niceties, but.

A Naim Cdp or network player coupled with suitable speakers would demonstrate that you landed in a very satisfying place with that Nait. Enjoy. 

If I ordered a 2.5m pair of NACA5 cable would that be ok?  I know Naim say 3m but that would be a bit long as well as more expensive

Nina posted:

If I ordered a 2.5m pair of NACA5 cable would that be ok?  I know Naim say 3m but that would be a bit long as well as more expensive

Im sure you could safely pick up NACA5 secondhand and then you'd be able afford 3+m lengths.  After all, there's not much that could go wrong with cable, is there? You could double it back like a Z to shorten it, thus avoiding loops. 

Good point Clive

Should I also change my jumpers to NACA5 ?

Use an F connection rather than jumpers. And get 3.5m lengths. I'm sure you can afford the extra sixty quid. 

Thanks HH I've actually just ordered 3.5m of NACA5

Sorry to sound dim but what exactly is an F connection?  do you mean something like this

ryder. posted:

Interesting Max. It's always good to have a different opinion.

Supernait 1 > Supernait 2

Supernait 1 + 3rd Party PSU = NAC 282 / Supercap / NAP 250.2

May I ask if the Supercap is the original or DR?

Ryder,

it's not necessary to re-read my post letter by letter to see that I:

a) never wrote that SN1 > SN2; I wrote that I prefer it and explained why. It's really a matter of personal preference;

b) never wrote that Supernait1 + 3rd party PSU = [equals] 282/Supercap/250.2, but that the SN1's voicing gets close to 282/200's. It's a world of difference. Anyway, my Supercap (that I used with a bare CDX2, a 282, 250.2 and N-Sats, so in a different context) was an older model completely recapped and serviced.

It seems that the more I write and try to be precise, the more I get misunderstood; a colleague of mine says that nobody reads emails longer than three lines, and I suspect he's right.

Best

M

And BTW, regarding all I have read (and written) about the more refined nature of the XS, I suspect since long that just like with cars, Naim amps become how one uses them: our member RSCH has a Nait XS which he uses with S-400s, and that amp is capable of screaming and driving like a £1000 whore.

M

Max_B posted:

It seems that the more I write and try to be precise, the more I get misunderstood; a colleague of mine says that nobody reads emails longer than three lines, and I suspect he's right.

Max, I think your colleague might have an idea that is the intellectual godchild of Michael Ignatieff's 'three minute culture' of nearly thirty years ago  ;-)

Nina posted:

Sorry to sound dim but what exactly is an F connection? 

This is the basic 'F'   imagine a single uncut cable with a pair of Naim banana pins soldered on, it looks like the letter F.   Its using the banana pins without the Naim 19mm spaced plug casing casing,  

This is with the Naim plugs

This in mine,  not a Naim plug or NACA5,  but still an 'F' connection

Thanks for that Mike, it makes sense now

If I get the NACA5 made up like this and then want to use it on non biwire speakers could I use the same cable?  I'm guessing I could by just wrapping up the 'spare' plugs that aren't being used so they don't touch anything

I'm really sorry for all the questions 

Christopher_M posted:

Max_B posted:

It seems that the more I write and try to be precise, the more I get misunderstood; a colleague of mine says that nobody reads emails longer than three lines, and I suspect he's right.

Max, I think your colleague might have an idea that is the intellectual godchild of Michael Ignatieff's 'three minute culture' of nearly thirty years ago  ;-)

Chris,

I had to google godchild and Ignatieff. I knew nothing of the latter. I think my colleague was just referring to a basic truth. Only here we have time and patience to write or read long posts, that reflect the geniuses we are; but in the real world I think that the fourth line in a business email actually risks to be skipped. People who make money and people who wonder on which amp to spend their live on different planets.

Max

Hi Nina,  first thing is find out if your speakers have the 19mm terminal spacing,  not all do.  Second if you have the Monacor 45 degree angled speaker terminal block (like mine) which a lot of speakers do,  or something else,  then you can decide on how to do it. It can be done no matter what,  its maybe not per the pictures.     Yes if you do use it on non-biwire speakers (I assume a temporary set up)  they can wrapped up. 

Max_B posted:

Ryder,

it's not necessary to re-read my post letter by letter to see that I:

a) never wrote that SN1 > SN2; I wrote that I prefer it and explained why. It's really a matter of personal preference;

b) never wrote that Supernait1 + 3rd party PSU = [equals] 282/Supercap/250.2, but that the SN1's voicing gets close to 282/200's. It's a world of difference. Anyway, my Supercap (that I used with a bare CDX2, a 282, 250.2 and N-Sats, so in a different context) was an older model completely recapped and serviced.

It seems that the more I write and try to be precise, the more I get misunderstood; a colleague of mine says that nobody reads emails longer than three lines, and I suspect he's right.

Best

M

Max,

You never wrote Supernait 1 > Supernait 2 but the fact that you preferred the Supernait 1 implies the SN1 > SN2. Everyone knows it will be down to personal preference as you mentioned you prefer the older voice of the Naim presumably with the SN1 over the new voice of the SN2, apart from the onboard DAC of the SN1 which you find useful.

As for the Supernait 1 + 3rd party PSU equaling the performance of the NAC 282 / Supercap / 250.2, I admit I have made that assumption which may not reflect what you have written. I am aware you mentioned the Supernait 1 getting close to the NAC 282 / 200 which to me means they are almost equal. However, you have mentioned twice in your post that you have owned the 282/Supercap/250.2 and suggested not to discard the Supernait 1. For this reason I have deduced that you regard the Supernait 1 + 3rd party PSU to be close or equal to the 282/Supercap/250.2's in performance. If that is not the case I apologise for the error.

Nina posted:

Thanks for that Mike, it makes sense now

If I get the NACA5 made up like this and then want to use it on non biwire speakers could I use the same cable?  I'm guessing I could by just wrapping up the 'spare' plugs that aren't being used so they don't touch anything

I'm really sorry for all the questions 

I am not a fan of "F connection" despite all the recommendation. If you want to use it on non-biwire speakers next time (or biwire speakers with a weird or different terminal/binding post arrangement or spacing), you would need to modify the F connection. If using NACA5 I would suggest using bare wire of NACA5 as jumpers or proper jumpers made up of NACA5.

I have checked and my speaker terminal spacing are much larger than 19mm

I also looked into suitable plugs to use with the "F type connection" and didn't think there was much about of any quality so I have decided to get a pair of NACA5 jumpers made up to go with the NACA5 when it arrives 

Instead of the F connection or NACA5 jumpers I suppose you could just strip a couple of inches off the end of the wire and thread it through top and bottom binding posts. If I was able to open up my cabinets I would do away with one set of binding posts and hardwire (solder) internally.

ryder. posted:

I am not a fan of "F connection" despite all the recommendation. If you want to use it on non-biwire speakers next time (or biwire speakers with a weird or different terminal/binding post arrangement or spacing), you would need to modify the F connection. If using NACA5 I would suggest using bare wire of NACA5 as jumpers or proper jumpers made up of NACA5.

I agree here. It can be too hit & miss with the 'F' type on the soldering. Unless some one 'in the know' is willing to really sit down for a few hours and test them with instant bat ears, it could either make or break the performance.

In my own experience, NAC A5 is really sensitive to how well it is executed, get this right however and it completely disappears allowing the listener to become fully engaged with the music.

Nina posted:

I have checked and my speaker terminal spacing are much larger than 19mm

I also looked into suitable plugs to use with the "F type connection" and didn't think there was much about of any quality so I have decided to get a pair of NACA5 jumpers made up to go with the NACA5 when it arrives 

OK a good move in that case,  F connections really make sense with the Naim 19mm spaced plugs.  Outside that the difference is maybe more about a more joint free set up than anything,  & a loose connection such that jumpers can have does not make for good SQ,  so pay attention to keeping them tight from time to time.

Nina posted:

I only use cd as my front end, which comprises of a Pioneer PD-S505 Precision (the Tom Evans modified one) used as a transport into an Audio Note DAC One 1X Signature

How would a CD5XS fare with your Nait XS2, Nina?

ryder. posted:

Max_B posted:

Ryder,

it's not necessary to re-read my post letter by letter to see that I:

a) never wrote that SN1 > SN2; I wrote that I prefer it and explained why. It's really a matter of personal preference;

b) never wrote that Supernait1 + 3rd party PSU = [equals] 282/Supercap/250.2, but that the SN1's voicing gets close to 282/200's. It's a world of difference. Anyway, my Supercap (that I used with a bare CDX2, a 282, 250.2 and N-Sats, so in a different context) was an older model completely recapped and serviced.

It seems that the more I write and try to be precise, the more I get misunderstood; a colleague of mine says that nobody reads emails longer than three lines, and I suspect he's right.

Best

M

Max,

You never wrote Supernait 1 > Supernait 2 but the fact that you preferred the Supernait 1 implies the SN1 > SN2. Everyone knows it will be down to personal preference as you mentioned you prefer the older voice of the Naim presumably with the SN1 over the new voice of the SN2, apart from the onboard DAC of the SN1 which you find useful.

As for the Supernait 1 + 3rd party PSU equaling the performance of the NAC 282 / Supercap / 250.2, I admit I have made that assumption which may not reflect what you have written. I am aware you mentioned the Supernait 1 getting close to the NAC 282 / 200 which to me means they are almost equal. However, you have mentioned twice in your post that you have owned the 282/Supercap/250.2 and suggested not to discard the Supernait 1. For this reason I have deduced that you regard the Supernait 1 + 3rd party PSU to be close or equal to the 282/Supercap/250.2's in performance. If that is not the case I apologise for the error.

Ryder,

no error and no apologies, please: the difference is in a little word: voice. After having had 202/200, 202/200DR, 282/HC(.2 and then DR)/200 (non-DR), 282/SC/250.2 (that I bought because I wanted to extract more 'body' from my Sats). My memory of all this is that I never heard the Sats sound so good as with bare CDX2, 282, Supercap and 250.2 (the last three fully serviced and recapped). But, too many boxes perhaps...

I simply realized that the SN1's voice was similar to the 282/200's and I preferred it to 202/200DR (because I prefer the 282 to the 202), so I bought my brother-in-law's SN1 when he undertook a big upgrade. As for the unnameable 3rd party PSUs, I had an itch to try them, they fit very discretely under the first shelf of my rack and do a good work.

I hope you didn't take my words as polemic.

Best

M