Mojo linear PSU upgrade for 2012 Mac Mini

I should have mentioned my setup Audirvana / Mac Mini / AudioPhileo 1 + ProPower / nDAC / XPS / 202 / HiCAP / 200 / Focus Utopia Diablo III

I'd  try replacing  the Mac with a Melco and seeing what you think. It was better than my optimised Mac Mini and a far better solution than messing about with linear supplies and such like in the pursuit of making the computer source sound better.

Shaun McCullagh posted:

I should have mentioned my setup Audirvana / Mac Mini / AudioPhileo 1 + ProPower / nDAC / XPS / 202 / HiCAP / 200 / Focus Utopia Diablo III

i have uptone js2 linear ps for my unitserve, which replaced the smps. The improvement was real and effective.  A lot of people are happy with the upgrade of linear ps on mac mini, like hdplex, uptone audio, mojo....but i think 1500 us dollars are perhaps a bit expensive.  For 2300 euros you can have a naim uniticore, nas with ripping capabilities and good linear ps on it.

Personnaly i would take a less expensive linear ps for the mac mini or go to something as a melco or uniticore.

Many thanks for suggestions so far....

The thing is I've got addicted to Tidal, which Audirvana supports really well, assisted by the phenomally cheap internet connectivity where I live..

s

I see that Teradak does something for one third the price. The filter module appears to have more thoughtful construction as well

http://www.teradak.com/products/102.html

Anyone tried one of these?

S

Would it be possible to borrow one? It sounds an awful lot to spend without a chance to hear whether it makes an improvement that you consider represents value for money. 

Shaun McCullagh posted:

I see that Teradak does something for one third the price. The filter module appears to have more thoughtful construction as well

http://www.teradak.com/products/102.html

Anyone tried one of these?

S

i recommend you " computer audiophile forum", a lot of members are talking about different linear ps for the mac mini. ( head-fi forum too).    you have sbooster, hdplex, teradak, paul hynes, uptone audio, from 200 to 1500 dollars.  I choosed uptone js2, one of the best, with 2 outputs.  Mojo is perhaps the most expensive, but very good reputation on the forums too.

"Was the improvement in sound worth the $1500 outlay?"

If it was, then im sure a $5000 one would be even better... Boggle.

jon honeyball posted:

"Was the improvement in sound worth the $1500 outlay?"

If it was, then im sure a $5000 one would be even better... Boggle.

For the mac mini, a lot of users are pleased with linear ps on it.  I had myself a tp ps( israeli one) on the unitserve and now the uptone js2, 3 times more expensive:  the sound improved by a step for me, but no by 3 steps. But i don't regret the investment.

The same was with xps2 to 555dr: big difference in price but no so big improvement.  But it is true for quite all high end components. cd555 was twice the cost of cds3, but not twice better 

but the question must be asked "what is being fixed by this change?" is it RF noise from the PSU into the air?? Noise on the DC feed? RFI noise on the mains which gets into the equipment on the same mains ring> If you dont know that, then you are stabbing in the dark using your chequebook as your weapon of choice. Which is fine, but is rarely an efficient method of problem solving. 

james n posted:

I'd  try replacing  the Mac with a Melco and seeing what you think. It was better than my optimised Mac Mini and a far better solution than messing about with linear supplies and such like in the pursuit of making the computer source sound better.

I did once compare Mac Mini/Audirvana vs Melco N1A into Chord Dave (Dave being pretty immune to RF), with no immediately discernible difference in sound in a simple A-B type comparison, of short duration (Bryston amp into PMC Fact 12 speakers), and, for someone already using MM/Audivana, changing to Melco is much more expensive than fixing the RF problem. If I was starting sfresh I would indeed consider MM, which whilst a little more expensive than equivalent storage in MM, it has the benefit of more flexible library capability, the library handling being Audirvana's downside that I put up with the for the sound quality - and the OP is wanting Audirvana for its Tidal integration.

Innocent Bystander posted:

The power supply is not the only source of RF noise in a computer like the Mac Mini, and removal of RF from the output may be a more effective place to focus.

When I ran Audirvana on Mac Mini (fully optimised including dedicated USB bus output) into Hugo the electrical/RF noise did adversely affect the DAC, and I am not surprised if the same happens with Mojo. The optical MM output could have been one solution, but that then routed the signal through the Mac's soundcard, with its limitations. My solution was to use a Gustard U12 isolator/convertor between MM and Hugo, which worked very well indeed (last time I looked the cost was about £120).

I've deleted that, because I realise that I took Mojo in the thread title to mean Mojo DAC, and only later realised my mistake.

But Gustard can also be used into nDAC, and A year or so ago Richard Dane reported that he was testing it in such a role, though I'm not sure if he ever published his conclusions...

jon honeyball posted:

but the question must be asked "what is being fixed by this change?" is it RF noise from the PSU into the air?? Noise on the DC feed? RFI noise on the mains which gets into the equipment on the same mains ring> If you dont know that, then you are stabbing in the dark using your chequebook as your weapon of choice. Which is fine, but is rarely an efficient method of problem solving. 

mac mini, unitserve, nas, all are benefiting from good linear ps . I think it is related wth noise but i am not an expert.  What is sure is that it is very effective on sound quality, it works for me and a lot of users in different forums. The effects are always nearly the same: bigger soundstage, more details, more natural sound and more true tone colors.

its far too high a price on such an old mac!

there must be better options - aualic aries melco which are bang up to date

sjw posted:

its far too high a price on such an old mac!

there must be better options - aualic aries melco which are bang up to date

yes, for the price of the mac mini and this ps you can have better solutions like melco , antipodes, innuos or melco.  But with a less expensive ps, the mac mini can be a good solution too, but no 1500 dollars ps....

hi Shaun -- my two cents: put the dough toward a secondhand 282.

--joe

joe9407 posted:

hi Shaun -- my two cents: put the dough toward a secondhand 282.

--joe

Changing preamp wouldn't improve the source, which is the OP's weak link: 

Using Audirvana the store/renderer has a choice of usb output compromised by RF noise, and optical output compromised by using the computer's own sound card. I presume the optical is the one in use as I don't think nDAC has a usb input.

A power supply wouldn't improve the optical output, while it might not remove all the RF on the usb output. To make best use of the store/renderer an isolator/converter that would would mate the Mac Mini's better usb output with the nDAC makes sense, and as I indicated in my earlier post need not be expensive. 

of course, with such a low cost solution there could be money for other upgrades...

from what i read on optimization of the mac mini,  a lot of users added linear ps to it and also usb regen with another linear ps to it.  The op use ndac, so he can't use usb regen.   But linear ps is an effective upgrade, for sure, a lot of forums are relating it. It is a fact.

French Rooster posted:

from what i read on optimization of the mac mini,  a lot of users added linear ps to it and also usb regen with another linear ps to it.  The op use ndac, so he can't use usb regen.   But linear ps is an effective upgrade, for sure, a lot of forums are relating it. It is a fact.

Regardless of what might be peddled elsewhere, a linear PS does not stop RF interference from a computer source as the PS is not the only source of RF in a computer, so if stopping it after the computer is still needed it is questionable as to whether it is really worth spending a lot of money -or any money - on a linear PS. The OP can use a usb to spdif/optical/AES-EBU isolator-converter to would feed n-DAC, one example being the Gustard U12 that [@mention:1566878603942595] was testing a year or so ago as a converter - far less costly than the things some people do. My very favourable experience using Gustard was with Hugo which reclocks so jitter isn't an issue and a usb regen is unnecessary -and I think nDAC also reclocks (?) so also unnecessary for that.

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

from what i read on optimization of the mac mini,  a lot of users added linear ps to it and also usb regen with another linear ps to it.  The op use ndac, so he can't use usb regen.   But linear ps is an effective upgrade, for sure, a lot of forums are relating it. It is a fact.

Regardless of what might be peddled elsewhere, a linear PS does not stop RF interference from a computer source as the PS is not the only source of RF in a computer, so if stopping it after the computer is still needed it is questionable as to whether it is really worth spending a lot of money -or any money - on a linear PS. The OP can use a usb to spdif/optical/AES-EBU isolator-converter to would feed n-DAC, one example being the Gustard U12 that [@mention:1566878603942595] was testing a year or so ago as a converter - far less costly than the things some people do. My very favourable experience using Gustard was with Hugo which reclocks so jitter isn't an issue and a usb regen is unnecessary -and I think nDAC also reclocks (?) so also unnecessary for that.

so if i understand you well, all the users who have mac mini as server and who observed real improvement with adding a linear ps are wrong and should have not trusted their ears?  come on, why try to deny a fact with some technical considerations?

but for myself i don't deny the upgrade with the gustard u12 adding, it is perhaps even more effective than adding the linear ps. But the fact is that adding a linear ps on the mac mini is shared by a lot of users: computer audiophile forum, audiosharks, head-fi, devialet chat....

naim improved the unitserve with the uniticore who has now a linear ps, melco use better linear ps in their more advanced nas/server, antipodes use advanced linear ps in their top range product, and unitserve with a linear ps is better sounding than the stock unitserve....

for the mac mini the logic is the same, and experienced and verified.

Re your first para, I did not suggest that peopke did not hear the differences they claim (ignoring that sometimes there can be a placebo effect, and also ignoring the at leat one thread I read on either Head Fi or Computer Audio appeared to be sponsored npby a manufacturer of power supplies). When I was considering what to do to fix the problem of RF with my Mac Mini, it seemed that many people went down the path of power supply first and only added isolation after, which makes me wonder if had they added the isolation first the differences they heard with power supplies may have been much less, if any, depending on the isolator and the DAC.

And whilst I have not trialled various power supplies for Mac Mini, my view is based on real world experience, not just technical consideration: Adding the Gustard to my MM/Audi lifted  sound quality from being worse than the rendering section of ND5XS to better than it, then later hearing MM/Audi into Dave (without Gustard, Dave having very good RF rejection) and finding it indistinguishable from Melco N1A meant I have not felt any motivation to even consider spending possibly large amounts of money trying alternative power supplies. I am not saying a better PS can't improve the sound of the MM/Audirvana as I don't know not having heard, though I suspect any difference is small - however the cost of such PS plus MM combined moves it into territory where there are other serious contenders without the DIY aspect, and which can readily be auditioned before buying.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Re your first para, I did not suggest that peopke did not hear the differences they claim (ignoring that sometimes there can be a placebo effect, and also ignoring the at leat one thread I read on either Head Fi or Computer Audio appeared to be sponsored npby a manufacturer of power supplies). When I was considering what to do to fix the problem of RF with my Mac Mini, it seemed that many people went down the path of power supply first and only added isolation after, which makes me wonder if had they added the isolation first the differences they heard with power supplies may have been much less, if any, depending on the isolator and the DAC.

And whilst I have not trialled various power supplies for Mac Mini, my view is based on real world experience, not just technical consideration: Adding the Gustard to my MM/Audi lifted  sound quality from being worse than the rendering section of ND5XS to better than it, then later hearing MM/Audi into Dave (without Gustard, Dave having very good RF rejection) and finding it indistinguishable from Melco N1A meant I have not felt any motivation to even consider spending possibly large amounts of money trying alternative power supplies. I am not saying a better PS can't improve the sound of the MM/Audirvana as I don't know not having heard, though I suspect any difference is small - however the cost of such PS plus MM combined moves it into territory where there are other serious contenders without the DIY aspect, and which can readily be auditioned before buying.

i am a bit surprised that you found mac mini/ dave indistinguishable from melco/dave, but i have not tested myself, just read the contrary sometimes.

My personal experience was going from unitserve/ israeli ps to unitserve/ uptone js2 ps ( 3 times more expensive than the israeli one):  for me the improvement was immediate, after 2 hours burn in of the ps.   Not night and day but very significant.

But i agree with you, spending a lot of money to tweak the mac mini is perhaps not the best solution.  For the same money you can have integrated solutions, one box, with also ripping capabilities....like uniticore, innuos zenith, antipodes ds.  

You have good linear ps less expensive, as sbooster or hdplex ( around 300GBP). You can try one and return if not pleased. Perhaps you will find an improvement and enjoy it.

IB, FR: the OP already has a USB -> SPDIF bridge in his chain (AudioPhileo 1 + ProPower).

Shaun: I do not know the Mojo PSU. But if you are not sure whether the current mac mini PSU has a significant or negligible impact on the sound quality of the whole chain, you could try replacing it with another one. Perhaps you could try a low noise SMPS from IFI and a LPSU of about the same price. If they bring perceivable improvements, you will have a stronger reason for going for a more expensive PSU. 

On another track: you have not mentioned how the nDAC is connected to the 202. If this is done via the standard interconnect, it could be that replacing it with a SL could bring more improvements to the whole chain (for more money, however) than replacing the PSU of the mac mini.  

French Rooster posted:

i am a bit surprised that you found mac mini/ dave indistinguishable from melco/dave, 

Specifically MM with Audirvana in fully optimised/dedicated mode - there are many different MM renderer implementations and they do not all sound as good.

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

i am a bit surprised that you found mac mini/ dave indistinguishable from melco/dave, 

Specifically MM with Audirvana in fully optimised/dedicated mode - there are many different MM renderer implementations and they do not all sound as good.

Yes i'm surprised. That's how i ran mine. Anyway mileage varies depending on kit, setup etc. For me, the Melco doing all this in one box was the simplest solution and one that didn't need any extra add on boxes or fiddling with software to 'optimise' it. 

Best advice to the OP - try a few different server solutions and see what works for you