Nac-n 272/XPS DR/300 DR or 252/Supercap DR/250 DR
Posted by: Wattsee on 20 August 2017
I looking at these upgrade paths and was woundering which would sound best. Any comments from people with experience?
Upgrade from what ? Your profile doesn't say.
Do you realise they are not the same thing ? The 272 is a streamer/pre amp. The 252 is just a pre amp so with this system, you would need to add a decent source.
If you already have a decent source then the 252 system may be the way to go as it is a superior preamp to the 272.
My base is 272/XPS DR/250DR. I’m planning on using an MQA capable dac and Roon to stream local music and Tidal (given Naim’s apathy to MQA) and a Rega RP10. Hence feels like upgrading the pre-amp is the best short term option but requires me selling two boxes rather than the power amp only one (I know the 300 is two boxes).
Even more confusing answers... why do you need MQA so desparately?
just set up a NAS with a decent UPnP software and enjoy the music.
If you’d heard then you would know why.
My question is not about MQA. I’m asking if anyone has experience of these two different paths?
Wattsee posted:If you’d heard then you would know why.
I hope you do realise MQA is just a convinient way to stream high-resolution audio (e.g. via Tidal). It's not a panacea to make music sound better than a regular Hi-Res WAV or AIFF.
Wattsee posted:My question is not about MQA. I’m asking if anyone has experience of these two different paths?
Pre-amp section in N272 is very good. Naim rank it somewhere between 202 and 282. The same goes for its streaming section - somewhere between ND5 and NDX.
252 is a completely different animal and requires a SuperCap to function at all.
If you were to set up a streaming rig with 252, you'd need to purchase: 252, SC and a capable streamer such as NDX. You could use your existing XPS to enhance the NDX.
Adding NAP300 to N272/XPS is a very popular option - but I haven't heard that combo so cannot advise.
Adam Zielinski posted:Wattsee posted:If you’d heard then you would know why.
I hope you do realise MQA is just a convinient way to stream high-resolution audio (e.g. via Tidal). It's not a panacea to make music sound better than a regular Hi-Res WAV or AIFF.
Indeed, and as it is lossy and produces artefacts on decoding the result is not the same as the original hi res master recording (though allegedly some people prefer the altered sound, just as some people prefer the false brightness that can be caused by ground plane RF modulation in DACs - and of course if that is the case, it is up to them).
To the OP's question, a question to consider is whether the MQA DAC sounds as good as that in the 272, e.g on non-MQA files, which would be of significance unless you only ever play MQA.
As for the specified choice, effectively to upgrade preamp or upgrade power amp., the speakers in use might be of significance.
Wattsee posted:I looking at these upgrade paths and was woundering which would sound best. Any comments from people with experience?
I don't have any experience, so no comment!
But, if you don't mind, allow me to ask you a question.
Are you concerned about the number of Black Boxes incorporated in your System?
Enjoy your Music!
Allante93!
Not concerned about that at all. If you read it, was about how many I would sell.
Still a very odd question.
Which MQA DAC? Without anyone who has experience of this specific (but undefined!) DAC it's impossible to answer the question.
You say "I’m asking if anyone has experience of these two different paths?", but you haven't fully defined what constitutes one of the paths, so your comparing a complete solution with 3/4 of a solution. Strangely enough a complete solution will work better than one without a source component!
You do realise that 16Bit LPCM (i.e. CD quality) and 24/192 LCPM signals will be downgraded by application of lossy MQA compression, don't you?
Still a very odd reply. You clearly haven't spent any time listening to MQA which to my ears provides a significant upgrade to all the material. Perhaps you should take a listen.
The DAC I'm thinking of is the Mytek Brooklyn.
OK, well if you like the distortion caused by MQA, then the MQA DAC / 252 is the route to take.
(It's still a downgraded signal even if you do prefer it - preference is subjective. However you simply can't beat the maths of information transmission or cheat entropy!)
Wattsee posted:MQA which to my ears provides a significant upgrade to all the material.
Can you elaborate, please?
More detail, more open presentation, sweeter top end and deeper lows and much more dynamic. I own a number of tracks in 192/24 or 96/24 and now only listen to the tidal master versions, as I prefer the sound.
I will let you do the maths I just know what I hear. But thank you for the feedback on which route to take.
Wattsee posted:More detail, more open presentation, sweeter top end and deeper lows and much more dynamic. I own a number of tracks in 192/24 or 96/24 and now only listen to the tidal master versions, as I prefer the sound.
There were a number of amplifiers in the '80s that gave a much more detailed, open and transparent sound... It was tracked down to 6th and 8th harmonic distortion.
Leaving the MQA discussion aside I understand the OP will use a third party DAC and wants to evaluate two options :
- keep the 272 as analog preamp but upgrade the power amp from 250DR to 300DR
- keep the power amp and upgrade the preamp to 252 / SC, swapping it with the 272
I would assume that the 2nd option having no redundancy (DAC and Streamer in 272 would be obsolete) makes better sense although from a financial outlay POV I would think the most appropriate alternative would be a 282/SC?
Many thanks for the great reply (didn't want this to into an MQA discussion). That was the route I was thinking, upgrade the pre-amp first and then the power later when funds permit.
Indeed, the great part of the 272 is the synergy between all its components; particularly when used with an external PSU. Whilst it's good as a preamp, that alone isn't its strength (somewhere between 202 and 282 quality), and that's not enough to fully exploit the qualities of a 300, even when the 272's powered by a 555. The 252 is a much better preamp, and when you do get a 300 the final result will clearly show that. In the mean time, I believe your preference for MQA swings it clearly in favour of the 252.
P.S. And that's from a 272+555 / 300DR owner!
Awesome, thank you. So even the 555ps doesn't make that difference on the 272 (had thought about that too), good to know.
Not upto a 252, no.
Don't forget that the 272, 282 and 252 all give somewhat different 'presentation' of the music (or 'view' of the music if you prefer). That one is usually considered 'better' than the another doesn't always guarantee that you'll prefer the one that's 'better' in most people's opinion, but it does make it rather more likely that you'll prefer it!
Then you have to take into account the synergy with the poweramp and speakers... You're on your own here.
As Huge wrote - NAC 252 / SCDR / NAP 300DR is a superb combo. There is one however though... it really does need good speakers to shine.
How about Harbeth Super HL5 plus?
Mine do with Focal Sopra 2s for sure��