Tidal on my NAIM app doesn't work properly...

As above I have had no problems for at least the last 12 months with Tidal, now it is virtually unplayable on my nac 272 since the last software update to the app or the tidal upgrade. Plays fine on my desktop.

ive tried all of the above mentioned ideas with no success. I shall email naim support to see if they have any suggestions.

Any one got any other ideas?

If anyone is having TIDAL issues then please contact us directly at support@naimaudio.com and we'll assist you directly ...

Best

Phil Harris

Damn. Spoke too soon and optimistically.

Ignore my "solution".

Currently email talking to Phil about it...  

Panic over. At least as far as my NAIM functionality is concerned.

TV's doing it now.

It's an ISP issue.

Grrrrrrrrrrr...

Anyway - Phil's all ears, so that's nice.

Phil thanks just emailed as Tidal with the Naim app just got very confused.

Reminds me of the Nespresso app now that was and is real amateur night, was hillarious is barely worked then i bought the Expert machine with full app functionality, NOT. Even months on it is useable but flaky.

Anyway point is product (super coffee) shame about the app, though the free machine made it just bareable ; )

DrPo posted:

Hi Jack, have you managed to stream via the standard Tidal app?

the first thing I check in case of a Tidal dropout (on the NDX) is whether I have a similar behavior in the Tidal app...

HI DrPo (Cool name by the way, sounds like a bond villain),

I downloaded the Tidal app on my iPad and logged in using the authentication details and it plays. Over the tinny crappy speakers in my iPad! There doesn't seem to be any way to route the signal to the NDX. 

However, the point is that I was able to log in with no problems and  there are no drop outs (and this is over a fairly weak wi fi signal too, not the industrial strength CAT 6 I am feeding into my NDX)

So we can conclude: 1) the authentication details are correct and 2) the internet connection here on the other side of the world is not the problem.

I got in touch with my ISP and they immediately resolved the issue. 

This became a temporary fix as they were evidently suffering some sort of major problem that made them uncontactable, but that's another story. So far this morning, everything's doing what it should.

Even though Wi-Fi Analyser and Speedtest showed everything working as it should, the problem still turned out to have the ISP as it's source so my conclusion is to start there in the first instance for any streaming problems like signal dropout.

Also, check your device for clogged RAM or malware or the like before falling into the trap of bitching about NAIM.

Oh well. At least I learned a lot about pinging, latency, bandwidth and signal routing, which was nice.

And "WISP", which may be clanging the death knell for cabled input. Of special interest to me as I use a roof dish for my WiFi, living as I do up in a semi-remote Spanish barrio where the terrestrial phone company will not tread...

Hi all, I have finally found out what the problem was. Just a recap, I signed up to Tidal on the Naim App, I could access Tidal on phone, iPad and computers but not NDX. The problem:

I had a % sign in the password. When I changed the Tidal password to NOT include % the NDX was able to connect. If you are having problems signing in on the NDX but NOT elsewhere try changing your password so it doesn't include the characters from the top row of the keyboard like !@#$%^&*()_+ and see if that fixes it.

I'm still having the same issues after a 2 week hiatus. I've emailed Naim support....

@mike1951,

Hi! You mentioned that it was an ISP problem. Can you elaborate on the problem. I contacted my Internet company and they checked the speed and said everything is fine. Unless I can tell them the ISP problem I have nowhere to go!!

Harry

Hi Harry, I have an observation that might be useful for you. I have noticed that when I am listening to Tidal in the afternoon and evening I am getting drop outs. I used a terminal window to ping a server and found out that although my bandwidth is adequate the latency is 7000 ms and things get a bit ropey. The two parameters that seem to matter are the download speed and the latency.

Thanks Jack. I am sure you are correct. Is it true that wired connections have more latency?

I have used my ND5XS to stream Tidal for 4 years. Never had a glitch. Never. Moved to anew apartment, same set up, faster broadband speed but can't manage to play even a complete track anymore. Bummer. I have called an ISP tech over. Just not sure what to ask of him.

I think it isn't so much the wired/wireless thing but the way that the ADSL modem handles the packets. It is some kind of software bug that makes the modem add in a huge delay and it wouldn't matter if it was wired or WAN.

Think of your modem as a gatekeeper which lets data into your network. Normally the gatekeeper is drinking double expressos all day and is instantly letting packets of data through to your system. Suddenly for no apparent reason the gatekeeper develops a disorder where he keeps going to sleep and wakes with a startled "HMMPH" and then lets a packet of data through before falling asleep again.

What does a traceroute tell you?

The problem was solved by the WISP replacing the roof aerial with a more up to date and efficient model...

Network measurements are 6 to 8 ping rates, 11 to 15+ Mbps download speed and 144Mbps bandwidth.

Mike1951 posted:

Cleared the cache. OK for a while but soon back to the same problem. This suggests that the fault is with the app?

In any event, I'd appreciate at a reply from a NAIM rep that they are aware of the problem and are working to resolve it, at the least.

Further update from me after a few emails with Naim support.

- issue itself is occurring a bit less than before; but is happening and is unpredictable

- Naim support thinks this is an issue with my local loop (between router and exchange) becoming congested at times

- they also tell me that an ISP cannot really fix/control this issue

- they are working with Tidal to improve responses from streaming servers; no eta on firmware update

Looking at all the posts here, I really think this is down to the streaming/buffering difference for Naim streamers. Pretty gutted about not having some Tidal streaming reliability - I rely on this extensively for my listening...

Still having them troubles - admittedly, a few more songs will play, but there is still this stopping that happens in each listening for me...

not seeing much more being posted here - is this only a Hong Kong issue?

Harry Thind posted:

Thanks Jack. I am sure you are correct. Is it true that wired connections have more latency?

I have used my ND5XS to stream Tidal for 4 years. Never had a glitch. Never. Moved to anew apartment, same set up, faster broadband speed but can't manage to play even a complete track anymore. Bummer. I have called an ISP tech over. Just not sure what to ask of him.

 

 

Did your faster broadband speed include a new cable modem/hub?  If so, that could be causing the problem, see here for a possible explanation:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...pouts-probable-cause

Maybe we should start another thread listing ISPs and routers stating wether there are any issues with Tidal 

I don't know what it is like in the UK or in Hong Kong but we have extremely variable download speeds here in Australia. I run this "speedtest" thing and my speed here varies from 1 Mbps to 7 Mbps. I have discovered a trick that sometimes gets the NDX unstuck. If you select the next track it will play. Then go back to the track which was stuck and it starts playing again.

Another trick which I discovered while reading and listening to music is that sometimes if you wait for a while the silence only lasts for 3 or 4 minutes and then the music starts playing for about 3 seconds and then dies again. Then you get another minute or so of silence and then the music comes back full time.

I think this whole streaming concept has been designed with the assumption that internet access is consistent and reliable but it isn't so in many parts of the world.

The Tidal App on my ND5 XS continues to drop off. Some times I can play several albums in a row and other times can not get through a single album without several interruptions. This is getting to be quite an annoyance. I can play the tidal app using my Mac Air or iPad with a set of headphones and never a dropoff. I'm accessing Tidal through the Mac Air and iPad using a wireless connection. The ND5 XS is using a direct Cat5e cable between the router and the ND5 XS. I would expect that the wireless connections would have more problems then the hard wired connections. The only thing I can suspect is that the Tidal app embedded in the Naim app is were the problem lies. Hoping this gets resolved soon as I am quickly losing faith and patience with the ND5 XS as a streaming solution. When it is working I love it, when it is not I'm starting to question my decision on the purchase. It is getting to be a real PITA not being able to turn on the app and just enjoy the music!

Frustrated and Venting!

The UPnP service with the NAS is great but the use of Tidal HiFi subscription was a main consideration with going with the NAIM ND5 XS to be able to listen to and review different music prior to purchase.

seakayaker posted:

The Tidal App on my ND5 XS continues to drop off. Some times I can play several albums in a row and other times can not get through a single album without several interruptions. This is getting to be quite an annoyance. I can play the tidal app using my Mac Air or iPad with a set of headphones and never a dropoff. I'm accessing Tidal through the Mac Air and iPad using a wireless connection. The ND5 XS is using a direct Cat5e cable between the router and the ND5 XS. I would expect that the wireless connections would have more problems then the hard wired connections. The only thing I can suspect is that the Tidal app embedded in the Naim app is were the problem lies. Hoping this gets resolved soon as I am quickly losing faith and patience with the ND5 XS as a streaming solution. When it is working I love it, when it is not I'm starting to question my decision on the purchase. It is getting to be a real PITA not being able to turn on the app and just enjoy the music!

The digital signal does not go via the app, it goes directly to your streamer, so you can't blame the app or iOS device for this issue. Still, very frustrating for you. Have you tried using Spotify? The sound quality isn't as good as Tidal, but to my mind it's better than Tidal in other respects, and may not be as prone to dropouts. 

You know, it just occurred to me. When sea kayaker uses a Mac Air or iPad the stream may be set to one of the lower bit rates like "Normal" or "High". Because the data bit rate would be lower they would automatically be more reliable. This would explain why Spotify is more reliable since it uses 160 to 320 kbits/second for "high quality streaming", whereas Tidal uses 1411 kbits/second uncompressed. When you use Tidal on your iPad it would be using "Normal" which I would imagine (don't actually know, can't find it on the web) would be roughly like the Spotify stream. If you want uncompressed CD quality music you have to deliver it at a rate that might not always be available where you live. That's why we have LP records :-)

By the way, Spotify uses Ogg Vorbis rather than MP3 compression but it's still compression.