The Evolving Naim Sound!

Posted by: Allante93 on 24 August 2017

""{The Naim "Sound"}

3/23/07 10:44 AM

What is the Naim "sound" in relation to other gear (referring to the current line up, not olive or chrome bumper)? 

I'm curious for your opinions because I like it but I haven't had a chance to demo a lot of other electronics. I've gotten varied opinions from dealers, too. 

In other words, is it bright, dark, etc. We all know the flat earth virtues but what else beyond that? Just curious to read what others think (and whether there's consensus) since we all seem to "hear" differently.

{Who determines the Naim sound?}

3/16/11 8:59 PM

When Naim develops a new product, obviously many people listen at several stages of prototype development, but who ultimately determines whether the end result is truly providing the PRAT and emotional connection that characterize Naim, and the increased level of fidelity that the new product is designed to produce ? Is this a committee decision, or does it come down to one person ? For example, I remember reading here that a single Naim employee used to listen to cables to determine directionality.""

Of Course, Naim's Sound has transformed from the Chrome Bumper & Olive Era, but how has the SL technologies impacted the Naim Sound, post Olive Era ?

CB>Olive>Black Box>2012 Black Box>2017

Allante93!

PS. SL/Chord ICs & Cabling!

 

 

Posted on: 28 August 2017 by Innocent Bystander
Mr Underhill posted:
French Rooster posted:

hey mr underhill,

My next upgrade is to buy tubes nos telefunken for the ear 912....

Hi FR,

Tim's advice would be that you are welcome to try, but that he would stick with his valves. A number of years ago I took in my 864 for a service, he grabbed a couple of the valves i was using and took them off to look up, he repeated this with my 534 .....in both instances I moved back to his very reasonably priced toobs and was happy with the result.

912 is a great pre, I certainly wouldn't sell it on. Again T de P's attitude to an EAR hierarchy is interesting. Before I bought the 868 I had a chat with him about the DAC4, to try and get a feel for relative merit. His view was that he build things to be the best they can, he wouldn't pick one as better than the other, more a question of the facilities you need! As refreshing as this is I would still pick the 868 over the 864, and suspect the 912 as well as being more flexible will best my 868. Happy to stick for the foreseeable.

ATB,

M

Mr Underhill, sounds like you are in contact with  the designer of some old amps that I am currently using for a triamp project: Musical Fidelity P270 & P170, diminutions of the A370, solid state amps all with a strong class-A bias (decreasing down the range), or so I understand. If indeed Tim is a friend with whom you have contact, and if you feel inclined to ask, I'd be interested to learn of his designers view of those amps, if he remembers them, as he will ahve designed many other amps in the 25 or so years since them.

My initial experimentation with triamping is very positive, using these old amps I couldn't bear to part with.

Apologies to the OP for the digression.

Posted on: 28 August 2017 by Brilliant
Mr Underhill posted
 
 
..
His view was that he build things to be the best they can, he wouldn't pick one as better than the other, more a question of the facilities you need! As refreshing as this is ....

I got the feeling back in Naim's infancy that JV's  was along those lines.

Posted on: 28 August 2017 by French Rooster
Mr Underhill posted:
French Rooster posted:

hey mr underhill,

My next upgrade is to buy tubes nos telefunken for the ear 912....

Hi FR,

Tim's advice would be that you are welcome to try, but that he would stick with his valves. A number of years ago I took in my 864 for a service, he grabbed a couple of the valves i was using and took them off to look up, he repeated this with my 534 .....in both instances I moved back to his very reasonably priced toobs and was happy with the result.

912 is a great pre, I certainly wouldn't sell it on. Again T de P's attitude to an EAR hierarchy is interesting. Before I bought the 868 I had a chat with him about the DAC4, to try and get a feel for relative merit. His view was that he build things to be the best they can, he wouldn't pick one as better than the other, more a question of the facilities you need! As refreshing as this is I would still pick the 868 over the 864, and suspect the 912 as well as being more flexible will best my 868. Happy to stick for the foreseeable.

ATB,

M

your 868 is very near the 912 from what i heard, just the phono inside the ear 912 is a step vs the phono of 868. But i have never compared both.   All i know is that they marry well with naim amps or preamps.  For nos telefunken ecc88, they are a big step over tim tubes.

Posted on: 28 August 2017 by Bubbamike

[QUOTE]

“”Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same but get better.

Sydney J. Harris””[/QUOTE]

I'm shocked to find Sydney J. Harris quoted here or pretty much of anywhere. Mr Harris was a fine essayist but much forgotten since his death. Thank you.

Posted on: 28 August 2017 by Mr Underhill
Innocent Bystander posted:

If indeed Tim is a friend with whom you have contact, ....

Hi IB,

Love to call him a friend, but no, I am a customer. I take the amps home every few years to be checked over, and stay while they are poked and prodded. Tim usually floats over and we have a few words. Very straight forward chap, and one who has had an interesting life.

I find he does respond to emails, although he is quiet old fashioned, so I wouldn't advise calling him by his forename!

ATB,

M

Posted on: 02 September 2017 by ryder.

I am a bit late to the party but would like to add a little to this thread after I inserted the 3rd party PSU into the system for the Nth time. I did not read all the responses here and only skimmed through the posts on the first page of this thread. Although I agree that there is an emotional connection to music with Naim gear, there must be something that sets it apart from other hifi manufacturers to give Naim the edge. For this reason, in my opinion a Naim sound does exist but it may not be as straightforward as it appear to be as a system consists of everything from amplifiers and sources down to loudspeakers and cables. If one is not using a Naim source or speakers, the interpretation of Naim sound will not be all that accurate apart from fact that all Naim gear do not sound the same as mentioned by someone here.

I only have experience with Naim amplifiers - Nait XS, NAC 202, NAC 282, NAP 200, NAP 250 DR, Hicap DR and NAPSC. I have previously compared the 202/200 to half a dozen amps though not all at the same time. My current reference - 282/250DR/HCDR are matched with Chord QBD76 DAC and Harbeth SHL5 Plus loudspeakers, standard Naim power cables on NAP 250 DR and Hicap DR and the rest are mostly from Chord - Epic Twin speaker cables and interconnects are Chord Signature Tuned Aray.

Naim amps : NAC 282 / NAP 250 DR / Hicap DR / NAPSC

I have previously formed an impression on the definition or interpretation of "Naim sound". The comparison of a 3rd party PSU and Hicap DR on many occasions had further reinforced my understanding on the subject which is solely based on my own observation and opinion. To me, the most important aspect of Naim sound is rhythm and pace. I believe the attack and decay times with Naim amps are the parameters that shape or influence the "Naim sound". The attack and decay times are relatively short with Naim, ditto sustain and release times. For this reason the attack and pace in music are often superior with Naim. With non-Naim amps one may obtain a smoother sound when attack and decay times are stretched longer. However, there is reduced attack and urgency in music.

Another observation is bass. I find Naim amps to be bass driven. The bass lines are taut, clear and defined, and it stands out more than the rest of the amps. I can easily follow the bass structure as it changes when the music is playing. With other amps (or 3rd party PSUs), the bass is not as pronounced and sounds softer. More wooly or mushy bass.

Some folks who prefer a smoother or more soothing sound have regarded the Naim sound to be assaulting to the ears. To each his own I guess. To me, the Naim breathe life into music. Music sounds more lively and real with the Naim. Smoother amps favoured by folks who regarded Naim amps as assaultive sound dull and lacklustre to me.

If Naim did not exist, I can still live with other non-Naim amps. Nevertheless, after comparing some of these amps (and third party PSUs) in my system, I find the Naim to tick most of the boxes for me.

In summary, the Naim sound does exist in my book even though it is only defined by the amplifiers - 282/250DR/HCDR/NAPSC.