ATC SCM11 with a NAP200

I used a Nap 200 with a SCM 19 mk 1 and it worked well... you won't get the weight and drive of the 250, but that is I suspect more to do with amp character rather the amp/speaker coupling

I'm currently using PMC GB1i's with my (humble) DAC-V1 and NAP200. A while ago I was favourably impressed demoing PMC Twenty.23 with DAC-V1 and NAP200 so I would say have a listen to the newer PMC's, Twenty or Twenty5 series. PMC's seem to work well with Naim amplification.

I used PMC speakers for a while - GB1i and then twenty.23 - but have to say that there is something rather wonderful about Naim speakers. It's such a loss that they are no longer made. As well as the ATCs it may be worth trying the ProAc Tablette 10, which work against the wall, where all proper speakers should be. 

Many thanks everyone for the good advice.

Simon I'd tend to agree regarding the 250 providing more weight and slam. The 200 voicing is much leaner in the bass department. But hopefully still a good match for the ATC's.

Dave, some of my friends have also run PMC speakers with Naim in the past. They too were very pleased. Something also to consider.

HH, yes I've read very good reports of the Proac Tablette 10. Additionally speakers that work well right up against a wall are probably better suited to my room. Although I do have room to pull them away from the wall somewhat.

Ian.

AM  , plenty of good advice above and a similar path for me  with PMC GB1i then twenty 23 . Loved them both but now happier with ATC SCM19s which were powered very enjoyably with a bare SN2 whilst experimenting recently , "even" my serviced Nait2 got plenty out of them .. Your NAP200 more than enough for the 11s . ATCs do like power but I've never found Naim amps lacking despite power figures , plenty of grunt ! I think the 11s would suit your system now and onwards . 

Hungryhalibut posted:

<snip>
, which work against the wall, where all proper speakers should be. 

Contentious as ever!  There are a different set of compromises between near boundary and free space speaker designs.  Near boundary tend to be harder to develop and hence more expensive then free space for any given level of subjective performance.  On the other hand, they're a LOT more practical!

Of course 'In Wall' is an even better than near boundary or free space positioning, both sonically and in use of space (but building a house around you speakers is rather OTT!).

Well I have scm11 and 250dr. I think it's a great combination. The speakers are superb. I'd guess the 200 would be a good match. My unitiqute was just a little weak at higher volumes. The scm11 are 85dBw if I remember rightly so need an amp with welly

if you are near Cambridge then bring your 200 and try it with my scm11s

pete T15 posted:

AM  , plenty of good advice above and a similar path for me  with PMC GB1i then twenty 23 . Loved them both but now happier with ATC SCM19s which were powered very enjoyably with a bare SN2 whilst experimenting recently , "even" my serviced Nait2 got plenty out of them .. Your NAP200 more than enough for the 11s . ATCs do like power but I've never found Naim amps lacking despite power figures , plenty of grunt ! I think the 11s would suit your system now and onwards . 

Thanks Pete T15. Great to know that the Nait 2 was able to drive them quite well. 

Ian.

jon honeyball posted:

Well I have scm11 and 250dr. I think it's a great combination. The speakers are superb. I'd guess the 200 would be a good match. My unitiqute was just a little weak at higher volumes. The scm11 are 85dBw if I remember rightly so need an amp with welly

if you are near Cambridge then bring your 200 and try it with my scm11s

Thanks Jon appreciate the offer, unfortunately I'm a good 3 hours away from Cambridge. I bet the SCM11 are fantastic with the 250DR.

Ian.

Ancient Mariner posted:

jon honeyball posted:

Well I have scm11 and 250dr. I think it's a great combination. The speakers are superb. I'd guess the 200 would be a good match. My unitiqute was just a little weak at higher volumes. The scm11 are 85dBw if I remember rightly so need an amp with welly

if you are near Cambridge then bring your 200 and try it with my scm11s

Thanks Jon appreciate the offer, unfortunately I'm a good 3 hours away from Cambridge. I bet the SCM11 are fantastic with the 250DR.

Ian.

Cambridge is a beautiful city -- worth a 3-hour trip, even without speaker demo. Though personally, I prefer the "other place" -- dark blue! 

Based on my experience with the NAP 200 and NAP 250 DR, most speakers including the SCM 11 will sound fine when driven within their limits by the NAP 200. It's only when you compare both amps one will come up inferior and the other one better. It's always the case when you compare two different components.

Ancient Mariner posted:

I've been contemplating buying some new speakers for a while. I initially considered some SBL's, but I kept telling myself to go for some newer speakers without the hassle of setup, along with trying to source a mint pair.

So my attention has turned to the ATC SCM11. From what I've read so far the newer ATC speakers are much less demanding in terms of amplification. That said I know the new ones will still require plenty of power to achieve the best possible results.

I would hope to think my current NAP200 is reasonably capable of doing them justice? Does anyone have any experience of the ATC SCM11 with a NAP200? 

My humble system is DAC-V1, NAP200, Rega R5, NAC A5. I'd really appreciate some thoughts.

Thanks, 

Ian.

It was told 11s would be lees hungry than 10s they replaced, now it's up to the latest to be less etc. etc.

NO they always require quite a beefy amp also I'd more concerned by the preamp matching quality first and possibly have a listen to any active version which is miles better .

anyway a definitely yes to your query

Ancient Mariner posted:

jon honeyball posted:

Well I have scm11 and 250dr. I think it's a great combination. The speakers are superb. I'd guess the 200 would be a good match. My unitiqute was just a little weak at higher volumes. The scm11 are 85dBw if I remember rightly so need an amp with welly

if you are near Cambridge then bring your 200 and try it with my scm11s

Thanks Jon appreciate the offer, unfortunately I'm a good 3 hours away from Cambridge. I bet the SCM11 are fantastic with the 250DR.

Ian.

Well you can try the scm11s. And active dbls...

I leave it up to others to say whether that's worth a three hour drive or not! Lol

jon honeyball posted:

Ancient Mariner posted:

jon honeyball posted:

Well I have scm11 and 250dr. I think it's a great combination. The speakers are superb. I'd guess the 200 would be a good match. My unitiqute was just a little weak at higher volumes. The scm11 are 85dBw if I remember rightly so need an amp with welly

if you are near Cambridge then bring your 200 and try it with my scm11s

Thanks Jon appreciate the offer, unfortunately I'm a good 3 hours away from Cambridge. I bet the SCM11 are fantastic with the 250DR.

Ian.

Well you can try the scm11s. And active dbls...

Active dbls, now I bet that's impressive. That alone is worth the 3 hour drive

Ian.

Can I come?

Stu

Sure

NAP 200 generally  is not man enough to drive passive ATC speakers properly imho.

over the years I've learnt to have a good laugh about some posts here, which clearly do not know what they are talking about, or ain't get the ears to appreciate how much power a NAP 200 has.

I think NAP 200 actually struggles less than NAP 250 with difficult loads at very high volumes.

I've got both, used both in parties, the 250 heats up (but didn't shut down) - and the 200 - drove my difficult B&W to very high party volumes - without heating up, breaking a sweat, or any let down in sound quality.

The full regulated PSU in 250 can work very well within performance limits, but the 200 is capacitor smoothed, and is more tolerant with pushing power out of the limits it was designed for. The 250 can only push so much power, and then it's shut down time. 

Let's just say though, that those limits are those which would make you go deaf first. 

analogmusic posted:

over the years I've learnt to have a good laugh about some posts here, which clearly do not know what they are talking about, or ain't get the ears to appreciate how much power a NAP 200 has.

I think NAP 200 actually struggles less than NAP 250 with difficult loads at very high volumes.

I've got both, used both in parties, the 250 heats up (but didn't shut down) - and the 200 - drove my difficult B&W to very high party volumes - without heating up, breaking a sweat, or any let down in sound quality.

The full regulated PSU in 250 can work very well within performance limits, but the 200 is capacitor smoothed, and is more tolerant with pushing power out of the limits it was designed for. The 250 can only push so much power, and then it's shut down time. 

Let's just say though, that those limits are those which would make you go deaf first. 

I'm pleased to hear you also have a good laugh at your own posts analog, like so many others do!!!

Keep the entertainment going old chap.

Drivers: HF ATC 25mm Neodymium soft dome, Mid/LF ATC 150mm CLD
Matched Response: ±0.5dB
Frequency Response (-6dB): 56Hz-22kHz
Dispersion: ±80° Coherent Horizontal, ±10° Coherent Vertical
Sensitivity: 85dB @ 1W @ 1metre
Max SPL: 108dB
Recommended Power Amplifier:  75 to 300 Watts
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohm
Crossover Frequency: 2.2kHz
Connectors : Binding Posts/4mm Plugs, bi-wire
Cabinet Dimensions (HxWxD): 381x232x236mm (grill adds 28mm depth)
Weight: 10.9kg

Does Anyone seriously think this is a difficult load for a NAP 200? I've owned and used it for almost 7 years, I'm quite familiar with how it behaves with a number of speakers.

Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohm 

From ATC website also 

• Flat impedance curve allowing easy load for amplifiers.

So yes it will be fine with the ATC

The comments "not man enough to drive ATC" are just uninformed. 

I have SCM11s driven by a NAP250 DR and they sound great at all volume levels. I have a small room and anything over 45 on my 272 is very uncomfortable and the amp is not in the least stressed. As others have said a NAP200 would drive them equally well

Indeed, and the more benign impedance curve one has with the new ATC designs means to me the lack of regulation in the 200 compared to the 250 is less of a implication than it was with earlier ATC designs.

When push comes to shove, the 200 is capable of greater long term continuous RMS power into any given load.  The reason is simple: In terms of long term power both are thermally limited.  The 200 is almost entirely limited by the dissipation in the output transistors, 250 is almost entirely limited by the combined dissipation in the regulator bypass (i.e. the regulator 'output' transistors) and its output transistors.

This is best demonstrated using sine waves into a simple resistive load (but who listens to sine waves into a simple resistive load !).