NAC 252

Richard, I hate to do that to you but have you considered moving directly to 552 if you appreciate the more forward presentation of the 282 and listen to modern or amplified musics? 

Chag -

Hère in Germany you can find 252s via the well known auction site. The sellers are dealers and must take them back of something is not ok. There is also a site called "Audio-Markt" (i don't know of i am allowed to mention it here). A "search" (german: Gesuch) annonce brought good results for me. Good luck!

Be patient the 252 (especially with a DR Supercap) is a fine preamp. 

Good luck

Gary

Richard Choong posted:

I am itching to get a NAC 252 (pre owned or ex demo). Unfortunately, there aren't many around or if there are, they are pretty quickly snapped up. If anyone hears of one being sold, please drop me a note. Appreciate it!

Richard, you just have to be patient, I was and I was rewarded handsomely with a wonderful 2 year old 252, but I did go via my dealer who was on the look out for me.

They appear to be a very popular NAC out there, and when I last visited Naim there were two classic series products  being hand built at the time, a 252 and N272.. it was fascinating seeing a 252 being built... seemingly far more involved than I had assumed.

Hi Richard, 

As has been said patience is the way forward.

Interested to know how your 282 sounds with the Supercap Dr? 

Ps, you have a great system,  congratulations 

I presume you've already tried a 252 in your system and have based your plan to get one because you like what it does.  I say this because if you like your current 282/SCDR into your 300DR, the 252 is not a '282 plus'.  The 252 does things differently which some love and others don't.   

It is worth the wait. I could not get on with my 282 and promptly swapped it for a 252. This one is here to stay

MDS posted:

I presume you've already tried a 252 in your system and have based your plan to get one because you like what it does.  I say this because if you like your current 282/SCDR into your 300DR, the 252 is not a '282 plus'.  The 252 does things differently which some love and others don't.   

Although I found with the use of DR powesupplies (HiCapDR on 282 and SuperCapDR on the 252) the sonic trait differences are somewhat reduced between the two, although the 282 is still the more forward sounding  ... BUT.. the 252 is more fussy on setup for it to peak its performance compared to the 282.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

MDS posted:

I presume you've already tried a 252 in your system and have based your plan to get one because you like what it does.  I say this because if you like your current 282/SCDR into your 300DR, the 252 is not a '282 plus'.  The 252 does things differently which some love and others don't.   

Although I found with the use of DR powesupplies (HiCapDR on 282 and SuperCapDR on the 252) the sonic trait differences are somewhat reduced between the two, although the 282 is still the more forward sounding  ... BUT.. the 252 is more fussy on setup for it to peak its performance compared to the 282.

@Simon-in-Suffolk, Please could could you explain what you mean about the 252 being fussy on setup. I have a SuperCap DRed 282. Thanks Phil

christoph posted:

Hère in Germany you can find 252s via the well known auction site. The sellers are dealers and must take them back of something is not ok.

This is how I bought my 252, albeit when the exchange rate was very favourable. It was sent to me from Germany and went straight for a service at Salisbury.

Filipe posted:

@Simon-in-Suffolk, Please could could you explain what you mean about the 252 being fussy on setup. I have a SuperCap DRed 282. Thanks Phil

Hi Phil, I found my 252 more sensitive to cable dressing and support than my 282... but... once set up well I find my 252 more accommodating of different sources than my 282 was. I found my 282 slightly over egged some sources ... the CDX2 for example .. however my 252 seems to let the sources shine through without imparting too much of its own character, and. my CDX2 consequently often sounds superb.

I don't want to hi-jack this thread but I'm interested in a 252 & NAP 300 combination. I have heard them and think they really rock- enjoyable, toe tapping, engaging, detailed, musical. Now my question is how much better is a NAP 500 & 552? Can any one put a percentage on it. I don't want to go for a NAP300 / 252 and then down the line upgrade again. I rather get the next step if I can. 

Unfortunately my dealer doesn't stock the NAP 500 / 552.

If you can afford 552/500 just buy it

its much superior to 252/300 by a huge percentage

If you have speakers that aren't too difficult to drive and a moderate or small listening room you may find the 300 all you need.  The 552/300 is an excellent combination. In any event, regardless of speakers and listening room, the 552 is way, way, better than the 252 and in my view more than justifies its price premium over the 252/SC. 

curio posted:

I don't want to hi-jack this thread but I'm interested in a 252 & NAP 300 combination. I have heard them and think they really rock- enjoyable, toe tapping, engaging, detailed, musical. Now my question is how much better is a NAP 500 & 552? Can any one put a percentage on it. I don't want to go for a NAP300 / 252 and then down the line upgrade again. I rather get the next step if I can. 

Unfortunately my dealer doesn't stock the NAP 500 / 552.

I tend to agree the 252DR / 300DR combo is absolutely outstanding, and at one demo I was at there was not a huge difference between the 552 and 252 driving the 300 into PMC speakers..in fact I thought at one point it was the 552 playing and it was in fact the 252.  But anyway in my system I slum it with my 252DR driving a 250..  

I recently upgraded my NAP250DR to NAP300DR. Seems that 252 has a new breath of life to it

MDS posted:

If you have speakers that aren't too difficult to drive and a moderate or small listening room you may find the 300 all you need.  The 552/300 is an excellent combination. In any event, regardless of speakers and listening room, the 552 is way, way, better than the 252 and in my view more than justifies its price premium over the 252/SC. 

My room is only 5.7 x 3.8 x 2.4m, quite small. I just recently got a pair of 803D3, that was the speakers I listen to through the NAP 300 / 252 combination. On my first listen the amp was cold (the dealer never left it on to warm up) I never knew this. I was going to discount it, then I went for lunch. I came back to a different beast! It blew me away, I had a grin from ear to ear. I was tapping my feet (nearly started dancing) it sounded fantastic. Any track I threw at it, it served it up with all the sides and the dressing. I think you get my drift. I also listened to Focals but they didn't sound as good as the 803. There was only 1 track that nearly hinted towards a little bit harsh. I think that must be the recording rather than the system. I was listening at 10 o'clock position, NAP 300 / 252 is some amp. I've got a few others to look at- PassLabs, Classe, Krell, Mcintosh, parasound, Musical Fidelity, Bryston, Benchmark, Audio Research.

But I think Naim has won me over so far, do you guys think NAP 500/ 552 combination will be over kill for 803 speakers? 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

curio posted:

I don't want to hi-jack this thread but I'm interested in a 252 & NAP 300 combination. I have heard them and think they really rock- enjoyable, toe tapping, engaging, detailed, musical. Now my question is how much better is a NAP 500 & 552? Can any one put a percentage on it. I don't want to go for a NAP300 / 252 and then down the line upgrade again. I rather get the next step if I can. 

Unfortunately my dealer doesn't stock the NAP 500 / 552.

I tend to agree the 252DR / 300DR combo is absolutely outstanding, and at one demo I was at there was not a huge difference between the 552 and 252 driving the 300 into PMC speakers..in fact I thought at one point it was the 552 playing and it was in fact the 252.  But anyway in my system I slum it with my 252DR driving a 250..  

There must have been something wrong with the 552 or it was fresh out of the box.  

Nah dont think so given who was also there ... well run in ... it's about system and synergies... and in that room and speakers that particular system sounded perfect... I was not alone... don't get me wrong  I enjoyed the 552 tthat day playing on another system in quite a  different setup and it sounded very good indeed... you see I have heard 552 sound amazing and also quite so and so.. and I have come to the conclusion, despite what I know some say on this forum, ..  I just don't share in my experience the hyperbole from some associated with the 552.. it's good, in fact very very good, but not always so.. and is system dependent to fully appreciate it.... and I am sure the same is true for the 252 and the Statement..and any other component you mention... perhaps my audio replay judgement was somehow compromised from the time I was trained in  studio engineering for the BBC in London.. buts that how I hear it...

 

But I think Naim has won me over so far, do you guys think NAP 500/ 552 combination will be over kill for 803 speakers? 

Curio, you have quite a list of amps there. But to answer your question, no I don't think 500 series with 803D3 would be overkill. I had that combo for over a year and this with the older 803S. Prior, I also owned the 252/300 with the same speakers and found that a great combination.

I bought 802D3's last year and these are clearly better than what went before. At the time of choosing these, I did not hear the new 803 but only the older 800D2. To my mind the D3's are better. The 802D3 bested the 800D2. So if you imagine your 803D3 are actually the same or better than the 802D2, then the question of 500 series electronics with 802's is a bit moot. Nobody would query 500 amps being too much for the old 802's. Well, apart from folks who do not care for B&W in the first place. I hope this makes sense.

Dave

Bodger posted:

 

But I think Naim has won me over so far, do you guys think NAP 500/ 552 combination will be over kill for 803 speakers? 

Curio, you have quite a list of amps there. But to answer your question, no I don't think 500 series with 803D3 would be overkill. I had that combo for over a year and this with the older 803S. Prior, I also owned the 252/300 with the same speakers and found that a great combination.

I bought 802D3's last year and these are clearly better than what went before. At the time of choosing these, I did not hear the new 803 but only the older 800D2. To my mind the D3's are better. The 802D3 bested the 800D2. So if you imagine your 803D3 are actually the same or better than the 802D2, then the question of 500 series electronics with 802's is a bit moot. Nobody would query 500 amps being too much for the old 802's. Well, apart from folks who do not care for B&W in the first place. I hope this makes sense.

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the reply. 

I wanted to go for the 800D3. I listen to all the 800 D3 series. I found the 800 just disappeared music flowed effortlessly without it showing were it was coming from. The difference between the 802 & 803 was marginal but the price differential just didn't make sense for me. From the 804 to 803 there is a night and day difference, the turbine head makes a massive difference. 800 series really starts from 803D3, I think. 805 are excellent speakers too, beats anything around at that price range.

At the end my room size dictated which speakers will work, so it was a no to 800, 802. I'm surprised that the 803D3 have fit, I've got room treatment and have been tinkering with REW to tune the speakers to the room. Still being run in, getting better everyday ��

The reason with that vast list of amps, so that I can listen and see which one fits my bill. I think at this level the smallest mistake gets very expensive. I don't want to miss any one of the ones I might of liked. So it's best to check them all out. The problem is there isn't one dealer who stocks all plus is a 800 series dealer. It is a lot for a home demo. I just want a 'quick' demo to see if they are suitable, the 803D3 speakers are very subjective of their source / components and any differences are highlighted. Currently I haven't heard anything better than NAP 300 / 252.

Is anyone using two NAP 300 in bi-amp configuration? Is this possible is there a big difference?

I assume that currently you are using 282.

Last time when I planned to upgrade from 282/SuperCap to 252/SuperCap, I was stop by majority here to ask me to do the big jump from 282 to 552. I did that, and I am telling you the way they told me. 282 to 252 isn't far on the gate, real gate and good jump shall be from 282 to 552 (no DR will just do fine). Trust me, you won't regret on the decision making (if budget is allow, if not just wait for the budget allow then only go for upgrade 282-552).

Regards,

Joseph.

BNN posted:

I assume that currently you are using 282.

Last time when I planned to upgrade from 282/SuperCap to 252/SuperCap, I was stop by majority here to ask me to do the big jump from 282 to 552. I did that, and I am telling you the way they told me. 282 to 252 isn't far on the gate, real gate and good jump shall be from 282 to 552 (no DR will just do fine). Trust me, you won't regret on the decision making (if budget is allow, if not just wait for the budget allow then only go for upgrade 282-552).

 

Regards,

Joseph.

 Currently I don't have Naim amplification, I'm using two Tag 100x5R amps bi-amping each driver in a 5.2 system. With a Audiolab 8000AP as a pre-amp / processor. Naim NDX as a source for music replay.

BNN posted:

I assume that currently you are using 282.

Last time when I planned to upgrade from 282/SuperCap to 252/SuperCap, I was stop by majority here to ask me to do the big jump from 282 to 552. I did that, and I am telling you the way they told me. 282 to 252 isn't far on the gate, real gate and good jump shall be from 282 to 552 (no DR will just do fine). Trust me, you won't regret on the decision making (if budget is allow, if not just wait for the budget allow then only go for upgrade 282-552).

 

Regards,

Joseph.

Sounds like sound advice. ��

Richard Choong posted:

BNN posted:

I assume that currently you are using 282.

Last time when I planned to upgrade from 282/SuperCap to 252/SuperCap, I was stop by majority here to ask me to do the big jump from 282 to 552. I did that, and I am telling you the way they told me. 282 to 252 isn't far on the gate, real gate and good jump shall be from 282 to 552 (no DR will just do fine). Trust me, you won't regret on the decision making (if budget is allow, if not just wait for the budget allow then only go for upgrade 282-552).

 

Regards,

Joseph.

Sounds like sound advice. ��

Indeed a good advise if the time period of that 552 is within 2 years. If not I would still advise to go for the 252 as it's a fine machine which will give a lot of pleasure...