Super Lumina trial

yeti42 posted:

Powerline is for Naim boxes, not necessarily for others. One made a Rega dac sound horrible, did wonders for a Core though replacing the Lite one.

 

Power line made a big improvement on Chord Dave compared to a generic power cable 

Badlands - you are are a cable denier and unbeliever - nothing new.

Most/all of us were - as I said nobody likes to spend money on cables, but I would concede at SN2 level, I think Hi-Line or Naim standard interconnect does a great job.

Speaker cables, power cables, and interconnects are basic electronic filters and have definite effects on sonic output.

Why anyone ought to prefer yours over another is akin to describing the color of the paint on your room walls, the lighting in the room, and why you chose it over alternative hues. What are the chances your chosen paint color will satisfy someone else in their own home environment and what would they call it? One person's cranberry is another's merlot, another's claret. Someone else will simply call it red. In the end no one really cares if you spent $10 or $50 a gallon on your wall paint or what you call it, just that it works in your room.

analogmusic posted:

Badlands - you are are a cable denier and unbeliever - nothing new.

Most/all of us were - as I said nobody likes to spend money on cables, but I would concede at SN2 level, I think Hi-Line or Naim standard interconnect does a great job.

Same goes for a 250 level based system such as yours.

Not a denier, as you put it, just a realist!

analogmusic posted:

It may be difficult to accept this - but according to Vertere, electronics are as good as they can possibly be now, and the weaknesses are the cables.... and for what I hear in their cables, they got a very convincing and compelling product.

 

Really analogmusic? I have something for you.

LOL.

That's funny, and I understand where you are coming from, after all you didn't find much difference between SN2 and 282/HCDR/250DR.

It's ok - I was one of those people who thought that the standard cables are all that is needed. 

And truly the are, that is the Naim sound.

But then I read reports of Sarum cables, (on this forum... Last man standing - there is a thread) - and got curious about the DIN/XLR cable for the NAP 250, and how it is a weak link in the system.

And tried the Vertere one, and WOW, massive jump in sound quality.

Yes I want more of the Verteres..... I got 3 of the cables (RCA/DIN - DIN/XLR and USB) and will be buying more of them!

 I'm not drinking the cool-aid Badlands, I'm enjoying my music a LOT more.... 

I've had the good luck to compare Hi-Line vs Superlumina on a very hi end system : Chord Dave (playing DSD file) - 552DR/300DR, Sonus Faber Fatura speakers.

The hi-line sounds broken compared to the Superlumina Interconnect.

Not true about the 250 based system, after all I had a 250 based system for years, what I stated was that the difference in price didn't justify the difference in sound quality.

I wish I had your golden ears, but I just don't hear it, just an FYI, some of the comparisons between the SL and Naca5 were done on a 500 based system, among other systems ranging from Rogue Audio, to Spectral, Mark Levinson, and lesser Naim systems.

Mine was not included in listening tests, just my own comparisons are done on my system.

If you don,t hear a big enough difference to personally justify the price of black box, cable etc, that's a nice place to be.......spend on a holiday or something.

Gazza posted:

If you don,t hear a big enough difference to personally justify the price of black box, cable etc, that's a nice place to be.......spend on a holiday or something.

That's exactly what I did!

I agree .... trouble is I heard s big difference :-(

badlands posted:

Not true about the 250 based system, after all I had a 250 based system for years, what I stated was that the difference in price didn't justify the difference in sound quality.

I wish I had your golden ears, but I just don't hear it, just an FYI, some of the comparisons between the SL and Naca5 were done on a 500 based system, among other systems ranging from Rogue Audio, to Spectral, Mark Levinson, and lesser Naim systems.

Mine was not included in listening tests, just my own comparisons are done on my system.

Well ok I see where you are coming from - one of my fellow Naimee friends who got a very hi-end system 552/500 with Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers heard my vertere DIN/XLR, and he thought the same as you, well there is a difference but not sure it was worth the money.

It is worth it to me, as I did many hours of A/B listening, and clearly to me, the vertere lets more music, and more importantly - more dynamics through. I got a much bigger soundstage also, and more 3D or depth.

These are important to me, but when I was using the standard Naim cable, I didn't think anything was missing.

I don't mean to invalidate your findings, but either showing off about my vertere cable, or liking it because it is shiny, or self-justification, isn't true.

I like it because it just is a better performer sonically than the Naim standard cable.

On the topic of Superlumina, I understand that due to technical reasons, apparently(?), Naim do not manufacture a SL 4-5 pin DIN for use between a NAC and Supercap/Superline (my situation).
Anybody tried any other variants other than Naim for this?

Richard

The suprise to me .... was that I was quite cable sceptical ..... and when I tried it the effects were not subtle ..... although expensive ...there are no pangs of trying to justify .... it was fab. Anyone who has an NDS into a good naim preamp should consider trying this....on loan from a dealer....

joerand posted:

Speaker cables, power cables, and interconnects are basic electronic filters and have definite effects on sonic output.

Why anyone ought to prefer yours over another is akin to describing the color of the paint on your room walls, the lighting in the room, and why you chose it over alternative hues. What are the chances your chosen paint color will satisfy someone else in their own home environment and what would they call it? One person's cranberry is another's merlot, another's claret. Someone else will simply call it red. In the end no one really cares if you spent $10 or $50 a gallon on your wall paint or what you call it, just that it works in your room.

I'm not going to 100% disagree with this. I think a lot of what we sometimes perceive as improvements can be more about different presentations that appeal more to our own ears. But the Chord Sarum vs Naim Kettle power lead head to head I did a few years ago wasn't in that category. I am absolutely confident that 100 out of 100 forum members would agree that there was a big change for the better. Maybe I had a problem with my electrical supply that the new power lead masked, but there was a change that was much more than a preference for a particular hue or grape.

Richieroo posted:

The suprise to me .... was that I was quite cable sceptical ..... and when I tried it the effects were not subtle ..... although expensive ...there are no pangs of trying to justify .... it was fab. Anyone who has an NDS into a good naim preamp should consider trying this....on loan from a dealer....

This aligns with my results from a few years ago when I tried the SL lead between CD 555 and 552 Pre and it was a revelation. A large part of the performance that was by comparison previously masked and murky was now there in resolved detail not previously present. Information from that source was not getting to the Pre before and now it was, so it is no surprise, to me, the same result obtains from the NDS.

Many years ago I was a cable-skeptic and considered all the claims over-blown and thought people must be talking about subtle things - then I listened to a demo at my Dealer, just to confirm my prejudice and was shocked at the differences. 

The quality of equipment does come first in making the largest difference, but the cables can ruin the performance or make it has been my experience. When you have got good HiFi equipment then finding out if money spent on cables makes more difference than an upgrade of equipment makes sense.

DB.

The difference between cables depends on a number of system specific variables, so its unlikely that 2 people will ever hear exactly the same differences when installing the same cables in 2 different systems. Variables include:

1. Level of contamination of plugs and sockets. If you substitute a Snaic that's been regularly cleaned and maintained the difference will a lot less than the same substitution of a Snaic that hasn't been unplugged or cleaned for a few years. Same goes for power cords

2. Level of RFI at the installation site. Substituting a regular power cord with a well screened power cord will have a far greater effect on a site with a substantial RFI problem vs. a site with few RFI issues

3. Quality of earth.  Substituting cables in a system with an optimum star earth will have far greater effect subjectively than the same substitution in a system where individual components are at different ground potentials due to poor earthing.

4. Component sensitivity to RFI.  A cable substitution that reduces RFI will have greater effect on a component that is highly sensitive to RFI. 

5. Socket quality. Substituting a standard power cable with a premium model will bring less benefit if the socket they're plugged into has poor contact with the pins.

6. Main's born noise.  The amount on noise, distortion and harmonics of the 50Hz sine wave feeding the hi-fi will affect how the SQ changes in response to the substitution of a mains cable.

7. Listener bias. Finally, if the listener has been plagued by a particular artefact of the sound, its elimination  will have a far greater impact subjectively than someone who's been pretty happy with what they've been hearing. While objectively one system may improve a little more than the other, the perception of the degree of change will be hugely different.

analogmusic posted:

Allante

you are 110 percent ... in need to drive to a dealer to hear some stuff for yourself. Otherwise indeed it's all then padded cell material 

theres only so much you can experience from reading about hi fi

like Sarum cables until you hear with your own ears, comments on them are a bit ill informed 

Analog, you are 110% correct, as usual!

Unfortunately, my funds will not allow me to partake in the final link, the Interconnect!

The Vertere Guy!

Allante93!

PS. Can't miss what you never heard!

Cdx2>282HCDR>Passive Tri- Amped Briks

Ain't Bad!

Primare Pre-30 > Arcam P1 Mono Blocks

2008 Speaker of the year Vienna Acoustics Rosewood Baby Grands Ain't Bad either!

Next upgrade Active Briks!

But if I hit the lotto, I will take your Advice!

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

It may be difficult to accept this - but according to Vertere, electronics are as good as they can possibly be now, and the weaknesses are the cables.... and for what I hear in their cables, they got a very convincing and compelling product.

 

Really analogmusic? I have something for you.

I thought this Thread was a wrap, wrong!

And this is 110% Funny!

Drink up Analog!

Allante93! LOL......

Allante93 posted:

PS. Can't miss what you never heard!

Ah.... the secret to a long and happy relationship!

I will clear this debate up for everyone once and for all. I have an SL IC in my system that I traded some speakers for. I'll take it out and give a listen for a few days then reinstall. I'll even wear a white lab coat to make it a real scientific experiment. 

LOL. 

here's another curveball.

Although I have heard myself the SL interconnect completely demolish the Naim Hi Line sonically... It's still too damn expensive for me.

I like Vertere  a lot more for entry level cables.

spurrier sucks posted:

I will clear this debate up for everyone once and for all. I have an SL IC in my system that I traded some speakers for. I'll take it out and give a listen for a few days then reinstall. I'll even wear a white lab coat to make it a real scientific experiment. 

Finally,I have only been asking you to do just that for a few months!

spurrier sucks posted:

I will clear this debate up for everyone once and for all. I have an SL IC in my system that I traded some speakers for. I'll take it out and give a listen for a few days then reinstall. I'll even wear a white lab coat to make it a real scientific experiment. 

To be really scientific won't you need to repeat the experiment wearing different coloured lab coats and no lab coat to be used as a control? White may favour one interconnect over another.

s.

Simon C posted:

spurrier sucks posted:

I will clear this debate up for everyone once and for all. I have an SL IC in my system that I traded some speakers for. I'll take it out and give a listen for a few days then reinstall. I'll even wear a white lab coat to make it a real scientific experiment. 

To be really scientific won't you need to repeat the experiment wearing different coloured lab coats and no lab coat to be used as a control? White may favour one interconnect over another.

s.

Now you're just being silly.

I'd like to think so, but in all honesty I don't think I am.

Colour psychology goes back thousands of years.

colour changes mood. Mood changes perception.

uh oh!

s.