They died too late - a list of those who could have quitted much earlier (or not begun at all).

Posted by: Massimo Bertola on 03 September 2017

In a way, Gioachino Rossini: wrote his last opera at 37 and died at 70. The Petite messe solennelle and one Stabat Mater in 33 years do not justify his former genius. Much better are the four Sonata a quattro, in fact he wrote them twice, for strings and for winds.

J.S. Bach. A monstrous gift for music understanding, he anticipated the evolution of tonal harmony much more than Schoenberg did with the atonal one, yet he's remembered as the genius of counterpoint. Although he wrote his best few things in his very late years, he dedicated himself to the most outdated, unpopular genres, and is responsible for many of the most exacting and tiring hours at the piano of poor, not guilty students. The fact that 79 passed between his death and the beginning of his fame tells something to those who claim he was acclaimed when still alive. I think he only got the respect that's due to all those who are extraordinarily proficient in an art practiced also by mediocre people.

Gustav Mahler. I am currently listening (for the 100th time) to most of his symphonies, and the fact is that he was not a symphonist, but a great songwriter (what do you think, Kuma?). Some of his symphonies are structurally absurd, he recycles material from a symphony into another, he never knows how to finish properly, and there are parts, namely in the 3rd and 7th, who are interminable exercises in long, dense, contrapuntal torments. Only his 4th is a complete, organic work, where nothing totally extraneous and incongruous appears. Yet, his melodies – like in Adagios and in Lieder – are often prodigiously fine. What to say about a Symphony called Resurrection, 'talking' of life and death, with a text by Nietzsche, in which the 3/4 time necessary Scherzo movement is fully recycled from a light, joking Lied about Sant'Antonio preaching to the fishes? The last two movements, though, are sublime.

Antonin Dvorak. Like Cherubini, the Director of a Conservatory, and it's heard. His most famous, last Symphony isn't worth a tenth of his first two, and he needed emigrate to the other half of the world to write it. So, the modest Aus Der Neue Welt is written as a testimony of his nostalgia for his country but is conceived for the taste of the place he's now (much like poor Bartok was forced to do not to starve. Yet, what was the need to mock Šostakovič's 7th in his Concerto for Orchestra?)

Leos Janacek. His best things are two, and the really great one is the final movement from Taraś Bulba. An overrated string quartet (I heard it soon before Šostakovič's 15th, and poor Janacek, his sounded like the work of a good music student who wants to shock his professor, which is probably how he felt for all his life), a couple of nice operas but a too eclectic man to deserve his fame.

So, in a light mood and not being taken too seriously, who feels brave enough to continue?

M

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by Bob the Builder

Let's say given up earlier as hoping they had died sooner is a bit harsh but both Pete Townsend and  Jagger & Richards should have given up writing in the very early 80's.

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by DrPo

Not brave enough to continue but brave enough to partially disagree with some points: the 3rd movement from Mahler's 2nd is my favorite movement of it and my go to track (Klemperer EMI '63) for system tests (now that you mentioned it, Shostakovich 15th, especially the brilliantly sounding recording of Darlington with the Duisburg Philharmonic, is another one). And Mahler's incomplete 10th certainly proves he shouldn't gave quited earlier although I agree he was not really a symphonist :-) 

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by Bert Schurink
Bob the Builder posted:

Let's say given up earlier as hoping they had died sooner is a bit harsh but both Pete Townsend and  Jagger & Richards should have given up writing in the very early 80's.

Jagger/Richards - already died years ago, we are looking at their Zombies......, but seriously I disagree, last year Stones album was great .....

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by Massimo Bertola
DrPo posted:

Not brave enough to continue but brave enough to partially disagree with some points: the 3rd movement from Mahler's 2nd is my favorite movement of it and my go to track (Klemperer EMI '63) for system tests (now that you mentioned it, Shostakovich 15th, especially the brilliantly sounding recording of Darlington with the Duisburg Philharmonic, is another one). And Mahler's incomplete 10th certainly proves he shouldn't gave quited earlier although I agree he was not really a symphonist :-) 

I totally agree on Mahler's 10th, but the fact is, it's not a symphony, it's an Adagio in itself (I don't want to take into consideration Derick Cooke's completion, for a number of reasons. Yet, it's truly a wonderful piece of music. I stil think his most remarkable achievements were in the domain of melody, not of symphonic thought. I must credit him, though, that – to quote Sergiu Celibidache's own words – nobody had such a knowledge of the orchestra

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by Massimo Bertola

I humbly apologize: the text 'Urlicht' from Mahler's 2nd Symphony is not from Nietzsche but from the Lieder collection Des Knaben Wunderhorn. A gross mistake.

Sorry,

M

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by u77033103172058601

Don't apologise. It is part of a poem by Klopstock and extended; clearly far too cheerful for anythinh Nietzsche could have written

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by Kevin-W

Pink Floyd, after Roger Waters left.

New Order, after 1998.

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by Dozey

Elvis Costello after splitting from the Attractions. 

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by Bob the Builder
Bert Schurink posted:
Bob the Builder posted:

Let's say given up earlier as hoping they had died sooner is a bit harsh but both Pete Townsend and  Jagger & Richards should have given up writing in the very early 80's.

Jagger/Richards - already died years ago, we are looking at their Zombies......, but seriously I disagree, last year Stones album was great .....

I did say given up writing Bert Blue and Lonsome last years LP was an LP of cover songs.

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by thebigfredc

All of the 80s bands that are still doing the rounds.

A work colleague saw Hazel Oconnor and Toyah live at a festival recently. FFS they couldn't sing in their prime never mind now as septuagenarians. How grotesque is the sight of Robert Smith still wearing Goth make up.

Ray

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by TOBYJUG

I would like to give a little more depth to this thread.

When I was a young teenager,  I went with a group of young talented friends to a cross roads at 12 o'clock midnight on a full moon. Hoping that Mc Devil would offer some thing juicy to tempt.   Nothing Happened unfortunately.

But at least my soul is my own.

Amen.

Posted on: 03 September 2017 by Bluebeard

Max,

Think you're being a bit harsh on Janacek, given his career only takes off with Jenufa -written when he was fifty. IMO his three crowning masterworks - The Cunning Little Vixen, the Sinfionetta and the Glagolitic Mass were all written within the last four years of his life, so I'm struggling to see when he died too late.

I think the central premise fails to take into account the welfare of the artist - Rossini retired because he was an extremely wealthy man; Dvorak on the other hand was still a jobbing conductor with an irregular income who needed compositions as an additional revenue stream.

Interesting discussion (reminds me in some way of cinephiles saying - I know I said it last time and it was a crock of crap, but really, this time Woody Allen really has returned to form..)

regards,

Giles