DAC Automation programming persistent or not?

Tamarin, it's a good question and one I can't easily answer in spite of having a DAC in my own system (I don't use automatic switching). If you can't get any input here then maybe worth getting in touch with Steve Hopkins at Naim to find out.

Thanks kindly, Richard. Will do, if no one happens to know here.

nDAC will respond well to ND-platform commands via the system automation.

As far as I know it cannot be permanently programmed to switch inputs as part of the pre-amp. The only 'automated' feature is that it will 'remember' if the illumination is supposed to be on or off. That's about it.

Are you saying your Naim DAC does not move the 282 to AUX1 (or to your programmed preference) after power cycle?  I think it should retain your preference over reasonable outages of a few days, at least.  And AUX1 is the default -- are you saying the nDAC reverts to AUX1, or does it fail to do even that?

Or am I missing your meaning?

Nick

Thanks for the input guys  (sorry about that).

@ Nick - Correct. And worse than that, the 282 will not operate at all via the Narcom-4 after an nDAC power cycle, until I reprogram the nDAC. As I'm actually using the default Aux1 input for automation, I merely go into the nDAC programming mode, then exit again (for Aux1 automation), to get the remote working again.

BTW, just in case it matters, I do not have a source component in the RC5 automation chain. I do sometimes stream via my Desktop system Unitiqute 2, to my main system with nDac and 282, via SPDIF. However, the UQ2 does not have an RC5 output. So I only automate the 282 from the nDAC.

Interesting.  FWIW, I found using the RC5 In or Out works, but the Naim DAC does not relay incoming RC commands from other components.  Thus, when I added my NDX, the NDX connects to the DAC and NAC, and I remove  the RC wire between the DAC and NAC.

Nick

That's good to know.

Have you tried replacing the RC wire between the DAC and 282?  These hardly ever fail, but mine did.  Gave unreliable results, until I swapped in a new one.  It took me a while to test this, such was my disbelief.

Nick

Good suggestion, Nick. I tried another RC5 cable, but that wasn't it.

However, you stimulated a round of testing and analysis, and I think I've worked things out. Albeit with a bit of speculation sprinkled in.

First, I found a much easier workaround to restore DAC-to-282 automation after a DAC power cycle. I've discovered that merely doing any NDAC input selection unfreezes Narcom control of the 282.

Next, I reprogrammed the DAC/282 automation to a non-default 282 input (I happened to try the AV input, but it doesn't matter). After doing another DAC power cycle, I see that the DAC programming is not lost after all. As mentioned above, it just needs to be "reawakened" by doing an operation to the DAC. So the answer to my original question is "yes".

I now have a theory of what's going on. I do not have a standard system automation topology, as I'm "missing" an automation source (ND5XS, NDX, NDS, 272 or 172XS). I figure that it's not likely that my partial automation topology is a tested/supported configuration. In a proper system automation topology, perhaps there's some sort of automatic handshake that happens whenever one of the participating components is power cycled. That's not happening in my partial set up, but the previously described workaround apparently reawakens the NDAC-to-282 automation. Mind you, I'm speculating.

In any case, with my newly discovered single-click workaround, I'm not going to trouble Mr. Hopkins with a support inquiry.

By the way Nick, in rereading the DAC reference manual and the NDX System Automation guides, what you worked out regarding NDX/NDAC/Preamp RC5 connections is correct. The DAC's RC5 input and RC5 output are apparently independent, and not intended for pass through. The System Automation Guide shows the connections as you've described them. And I was reminded that RC5 inputs can alternatively be used for external IR sensors.

Thanks again to all the respondees.

Good news, Tamarin!

For a year or two, before I got the NDX, I used a Squeezebox Touch, a Mac Mini, and an Airport Express into different inputs on the Naim DAC.  The only trick the DAC ever did was setting the NAC to AUX 1 for me, and it did it reliably with a good RC wire, and a press to 7, 8, 9, or 0 on my remote, or the 1, 2, 3, or 4 button on the DAC panel.  I do not recall this ever failing to work, though I only turned the system off for vacations a couple of times a year.

I did learn that each of the four buttons toggles between the optical and co-ax input, so it is possible for the panel on the DAC to indicate the correct input when the alternative is active, which can be confusing.  Nothing to do with your issues.

Best,

Nick

Yes, I'm now convinced that my nDAC is behaving as designed.

I was aware of the Narcom 7/8/9/0 keys to DAC 1/2/3/4 input mapping. BTW, the reason for that per the manual is:

"Note: The handset 7, 8, 9, and 0 keys are used because the 1, 2, 3 and 4 keys are already employed for preamplifier input selection."

But I hadn't picked up on the coax/toslink toggling. I peeked again at the manual and it's covered as follows:

"Only one connection format (optical or coaxial) for
each input may be used at any one time. However,
both may be connected simultaneously and the DAC
will automatically select the socket on which valid data
is present. If a data stream is present on both sockets,
selection can be switched between the two by pressing
the relevant input button."

Another good tip. I hadn't caught this one before.

I love that Naim gear is so flexible *. And for the most part, if you don't need a particular advanced feature, you can ignore the nuances of configuration and operation.

* Though I can't help mentioning that I'm disappointed that the new Unity series has done away with digital outputs  :-(

Glad things worked out well. And I have learned something new today as well from your experiments [@mention:44225911806989303]

Currently my nDAC is doing as stellar duty with my Olive set, whilst I'm trying to figure out how to squeeze 5 boxes on a rack designed for 4 I used to run it with my NDX, powered by a 555PS. But adding a NAP250 to my SN2 deprived me of one rack space....

Glad to be of service, Adam.

I feel your pain. I have several boxes (mostly PSUs) that don't fit on my main rack. Even after adding another shelf.

I don't really have room for another rack.

Two PSUs, sitting on a full-width Auralex Propad XL, fit neatly under my restored, antique record cabinet, cum TT stand. The situation would be in hand, if that was it.

However,...

I have two more PSUs, and a DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 room correction unit, which have to live on half-width Auralex Propads, sitting on the floor. One is nestled between my record cabinet and main rack, and the other resides on the far side of my main rack. Help!

I was tempted the other day to bid on an NDX, that appeared on a well known auction site, at a very low opening price. While I was still in heated debate with myself, I was greatly relieved when the price climbed above the too-good-to-not-buy-it price. Phew!

Tamarin, 

The automation that comes with a Naim ND player is very appealing, if you care for that sort of thing, as I do.  FM, if available in your area, is particularly interesting rendered through the Naim DAC.  Generation/AD-DA Conversion-loss be darned -- it works very well; and whole-house possibilities multiply.

Nick

Hands over ears. La la la! Not listening!

But yes, I get the equivalent of the fully automated separates experience via my UQ2 desktop and bedroom systems. Maybe, someday, I'll jump to a classic level separate streamer (If I can figure how to manage the box count).

For now, I'm satisfied with my desktop UQ2, doubling as a streamer to my main system, via the UQ2 coax spdif output to my nDAC.

And I do have a rooftop FM antenna for the UQ2. It's nice to be able to stream (and even multi-room party mode) the FM too (What's an extra cycle of AD-DA between friends?)

Well done, Tamarin; esp. the antenna -- makes a huge difference, doesn't it?

Nick

Yes sir. Having a proper FM setup, including a rooftop antenna had been a long time bucket-list item of mine, as all my tuners in the past had slummed it with their useless, free-bee, dipole ribbon antennas pinned to the wall. Like an Arcam Alpha 3 Waveband Tuner which never worked that well with said excuse for an antenna.

I finally scratched the itch a few years ago with the UQ2 FM tuner connected to a Magnum Dynalab ST-2 that's up on a mast attached to my chimney. I know there's better antennas to be had, but a simple 'n' svelte, unidirectional antenna gets the job done in my locale. Woot!

ST-2 is what I use.  It is temporarily in my attic on its journey to my chimney.

Nice. I'm no antenna expert, but I'd imagine that you're getting most of what you'd get on the roof, unless you have lead sheathing, or are have severe line-of-sight issues (TFIC)