Server Stored Albums - Album tracks listed / play alphabetically through the Naim App?

I think you need to explain in more detail exactly what the issue is. I certainly can't understand it from a few words. 

Halibut I will try and explain again.

I use the Naim App to access a NAS which has my ripped CDs stored. When I click on an album, the individual tracks are listed alphabetically, by track name, not in the original as intended order. Very strange...

Regards

Leon

I found a solution. To enter the drive by selecting NAS/Album instead of by NAS/by folder/albums. 

OK but   ..........  it should play an album by track number no matter how you browse/access.      The app is just a dumb reader & will only show & play whatever the NAS 'shows' it.   I think the real problem is the UPnP software loaded on the NAS - do you know what it is & can you add another ???.      I also suggest you might try to see if a re-index changes the problem,  may a long shot but worth a try. 

Its a Seagate Personal Cloud, software wise I couldn't tell you being a complete novice with all things IT.

I'm currently re-indexing though to see how that pans out.

I would get a good nas - a Qnap or Synology - and run a good upnp server - Asset or Minimserver respectively. 

I've just had a look around the Seagate www & the instructions & spec's & I don't see much on the media server software.   I suspect it's embedded proprietary & there's not much room to do something different.  It looks to be designed for general universal home use & I suspect it will work OK but be limited in what it can do.   So have to agree on the HH post re a pukka NAS & UPnP software.

Guys (Nigel, Mike) - possible metadata issue too?

[@mention:59572673783300665] - what software have you used to rip the CDs? What format are they ripped to?

Adam,

WMP. In terms of format they were ripped to MP3 because at the time it was a format most of my software (phone etc) would accept. In the process of re ripping them.

Leon Wadsworth posted:

Adam,

WMP. In terms of format they were ripped to MP3 because at the time it was a format most of my software (phone etc) would accept. In the process of re ripping them.

If I could recommend two pieces of software that you may want to purchase (if you intend to rip using a PC / MAC):

* dB Poweramp - that's for ripping and converting files.

* Metadatics - that's for checking, amending and re-assigning metadata

One thing that you will also need to remember that UPnP software uses metadata to 'display' and 'serve' the content of your library to you in an easy to search manner. Maintaing good 'metadata hygine' is vital 

Happy listening!

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

Guys (Nigel, Mike) - possible metadata issue too?

It could be,   but WMP ripped to MP3 do keep track numbers & the Seagate media server should play in track number sequence,  it does when the browsing path is set for NAS/Album but not when NAS/by folder/albums so it looks like track numbers are intact & respected on one browsing path.         That brings me back to the Seagate media server.  

But its a bit of a waste playing MP3 on Nova & Muso(s)

Thanks HH & Adam, it looks like I have some research/ learning to do but than you got pointing me in the right direction it's appreciated. 

MikeB appreciate what you are saying. They were ripped some years ago. These days I stream mostly from tidal however some discs I own are not available. I'll take on Adams advice and rip them again. 

Leon

Adam Zielinski posted:

Leon Wadsworth posted:

Adam,

WMP. In terms of format they were ripped to MP3 because at the time it was a format most of my software (phone etc) would accept. In the process of re ripping them.

If I could recommend two pieces of software that you may want to purchase (if you intend to rip using a PC / MAC):

* dB Poweramp - that's for ripping and converting files.

* Metadatics - that's for checking, amending and re-assigning metadata

One thing that you will also need to remember that UPnP software uses metadata to 'display' and 'serve' the content of your library to you in an easy to search manner. Maintaing good 'metadata hygine' is vital 

Happy listening!

Adam

Dbpoweramp can do everything you need with your metadata. If you have it you don't need any other metadata editing software. You still need a upnp server though. 

If you are using a pc, you do not need to buy dbpoweramp to rip with it, but you have to buy it to edit meta data. mp3 is a fine alternative and is free.

Claus

I'm not sure what you are getting at there, and it risks confusing the OP. Ripping to MP3 will give a much worse sound that ripping to flac or WAV. If you have dbpoweramp you have all the options available. 

Slightly confusing Claus.      Its 'Mp3tag',  a software program for editing metadata.   MP3 is the lossy audio encoding format

I use Mp3tag & others,  but if you want an end to end trouble-free program that does it all,  then it has to be dBpoweramp,  & its worth every penny/cent/ore.  

Mike-B posted:

OK but   ..........  it should play an album by track number no matter how you browse/access.      The app is just a dumb reader & will only show & play whatever the NAS 'shows' it.   I think the real problem is the UPnP software loaded on the NAS - do you know what it is & can you add another ???.      I also suggest you might try to see if a re-index changes the problem,  may a long shot but worth a try. 

I think that the server will play the files in the order that they appear in the file folder when using folder view so if the filenames are in alpha order then this the order in which they will be played. I use %track% - %title% format for my filenames so this is not an issue.

On the odd occasion I've used folder/file view I've noticed that the app shows these listed in the play queue as %playqueue no% - %track% - %title% so it is listing them and playing by filename order.

sjbabbey posted:

I think that the server will play the files in the order that they appear in the file folder when using folder view so if the filenames are in alpha order then this the order in which they will be played. I use %track% - %title% format for my filenames so this is not an issue.

On the odd occasion I've used folder/file view I've noticed that the app shows these listed in the play queue as %playqueue no% - %track% - %title% so it is listing them and playing by filename order.

I don't agree,  all rips & downloads have track numbers & that controls how they are ordered in the file folder.  The order they get played & if they do play in a non numeric sequence will be a function of the media server software.  

Mike-B posted:

sjbabbey posted:

I think that the server will play the files in the order that they appear in the file folder when using folder view so if the filenames are in alpha order then this the order in which they will be played. I use %track% - %title% format for my filenames so this is not an issue.

On the odd occasion I've used folder/file view I've noticed that the app shows these listed in the play queue as %playqueue no% - %track% - %title% so it is listing them and playing by filename order.

I don't agree,  all rips & downloads have track numbers & that controls how they are ordered in the file folder.  The order they get played & if they do play in a non numeric sequence will be a function of the media server software.  

I'm sorry you don't agree. By default, Windows file explorer (and I'd expect that Linux does too) certainly orders files by alpha within file folders. Of course, if the track no. appears at the start of the filename then they will be sorted in numeric/alpha order. I'm using Asset v6.1 (beta) and this includes a folder/file view in addition to the usual metadata tag based views and when using the folder/file browser view the files are served and appear in the app play queue as I have described.

The OP has indicated that the tracks appear in the correct order when choosing the "Album" (tag based) view rather than the Folder/File (non tag based) view and this is exactly the behaviour I'd expect.

Leon,

If you really need to re-rip your discs (rather than just amending the filenames using mp3tag) then I suggest that, before you start you ensure your ripping software will add the track number before the actual track title in the filename. Also, it's a good idea to check that the track No. consists of 2 digits i.e. 01, 02 etc. as you don't want track no. 1 to be followed by track 11 and 12 etc.

sjbabbey posted:

Leon,

If you really need to re-rip your discs (rather than just amending the filenames using mp3tag) then I suggest that, before you start you ensure your ripping software will add the track number before the actual track title in the filename. Also, it's a good idea to check that the track No. consists of 2 digits i.e. 01, 02 etc. as you don't want track no. 1 to be followed by track 11 and 12 etc.

What you say makes sense, but it really shouldn't be necessary. I wonder if a setting in the server has inadvertently been changed. I've never used Asset, but folder view in Minimserver shows the correct track order, just the same as in tag view.

Hi Chris,

I've had a look at the config page for Asset and I can't see a setting to amend the behaviour of the folder/file browser view. It may be worthwhile some follow up research through the Asset forum. I suspect that, as this is non-tag dependant, then it doesn't pick up the track number or at least it ignores it for sorting purposes.

When I first got into streaming, I used WD MBL drives which had Twonky pre-installed and came upon the alpha filename problem so overcame this by having the track number included at the start of the filename and set up dBpoweramp to do this automatically whenever I rip a new disc.  

sjbabbey posted:

Hi Chris,

I've had a look at the config page for Asset and I can't see a setting to amend the behaviour of the folder/file browser view. It may be worthwhile some follow up research through the Asset forum. I suspect that, as this is non-tag dependant, then it doesn't pick up the track number or at least it ignores it for sorting purposes.

When I first got into streaming, I used WD MBL drives which had Twonky pre-installed and came upon the alpha filename problem so overcame this by having the track number included at the start of the filename and set up dBpoweramp to do this automatically whenever I rip a new disc.  

Actually, thinking more carefully about this, my music files are numbered 01, 02 etc. It's just that the numbers aren't visible on the app, only when you view the files on a computer, as the numbers are not included in the tags.

Leon - I've had the same issues, and it's a frustrating experience. Mine was, when using a WD MyBook as a NAS with its proprietary media server s/w, in the end I binned it and bought another drive - by coincidence a Seagate Personal Cloud. 

It helps to understand what's going on. Your music files are just files as far as your computer is concerned. That they end with .mp3 or .flac is irrelevant; your computer sees them as files and displays them alphabetically by default. You can override that of course, but that's how your computer  (Mac, or PC btw?) displays them. It reads the tags if you r-click -> Properties and they're music files, to show the extra detail in the properties pane. Your Naim app tho isn't reading the folder structure directly. It reads the metadata served up by whichever media server you happen to use. Seagate provide the built-in version, but you don't have to stick with it. Personally I removed Seagate's own and replaced it with Plex, which is nicer and acc to all who use, the best thing since sliced bread. I wouldn't go that far but it works compared to Seagate and to WD's famously ropey s/w. Before anyone tells me, Twonky didn't work either. Apparently the WD MyBook just doesn't work, end of. It didn't for me on a CA Stream Magic 6, and didn't on its replacement ND5XS.

The Naim app reads the metadata exactly as it's presented, so there's not much you can do at that end other than going in a different way. I found that going in by Album is a bit crap as you're presented with a list of every album on your NAS, no grouping by artist so it's not as good. And tbh, this is basic stuff, it should just work. 

Go to the Public folder of your Seagate NAS and open the Personal Cloud short cut. You may have to log in at this point. It'll open on the Summary page; in that, top left, is a grid next to the greeting - click on that, open App Manager and then open the Multimedia link on the left panel. It'll show Seagate Media, and iirc the option to install Plex. If not, go to the Plex website, download the version for NAS rives to your desktop then install manually - look under Advanced on the Multimedia page.

Once installed under Action (next to Plex Media Server) Open Plex, this opens a new tab where you'll be prompted to create a Plex a/c. Do this, then when it's connected up & settled down go to Settings to tell it where your Music folder is, then Music ... and Scan Library Files. It'll take an age first time round, but it'll build your NAS metadata that will show properly in the Naim app. 

Once you've done that you'll see two media servers in your Naim app. You can use either / both, or switch one off. Back in your Seagate Multimedia page, next to Seagate Media under Action, click Uninstall. There is a stop option but the nuclear option is best, and it's trivial to reinstall it. Get rid of it, and your Naim will just show Plex as a source. All being well it'll show everything in the right order with the right album art.

This works for me, having been through the angst of trying to sort out why the tracks were listed alphabetically in previous permutations of h/w & s/w.. 

I wouldn't get too bogged down with debates over whether MP3 is crap or not, or whether dbPoweramp outperforms other rippers. It's digital data, there's only so much you can do to make it better digital data. Most people who are old enough to afford Naim gear would be hard pushed to identify MP3 v WAV v FLAC in double blind tests, assuming the MP3 is full strength at 320k. MP3Tag is one of the best tag editors available and just works, in many ways. It's free too. Problems with metadata are more usually due to tag imperfections not files, so that's the area to concentrate on. 

Thanks a lot Chris I'll give that a try this evening and report back.