250 active vs 300 passive

You don't mention which speakers you are using Martin. For what it's worth I would agree with your dealer as active presentation is somewhat different to passive and going back to passive may be a bit of a shock to the system. I am biased of course and I'm sure you will get a range of opinions on this.

Check out Naim's FAQ, What is an Active System:

"We believe that the best way to do the job is to intercept the musical signal as it leaves the pre-amplifier and use a powered [active] crossover (an electronic filtering network) to separate the highs from the mids and the lows. This, naturally, means that we need to use more power amplifiers: one for each band of frequencies. And more loudspeaker cables, of course: one from each amplifier to its dedicated loudspeaker driver connection. 

This is, of course, more expensive than any passive system arrangement but we are convinced - as are many satisfied customers - that the results justify the additional expenditure. Active systems typically sound more precise, clear and controlled than passive systems. The result is music that sounds more like music and less like a hi-fi system. In part this is because active systems inherently produce less distortion than passive systems. [Sorry, for being technical but it's a fact!] "

Enjoy you Music!

Allante93!

I am sure that a 300 passive or even better a 500 can bring much enjoyment. Just remember what you will lose when going from active to passive. The way I think about it is that in an active setup the music is placed in a 3d dimentional space, and voices and instruments are very realistic. You do also have some posibility to change the levels for base, midrange and trebble in the the snaxo, if you are using a 3 way setup. On the other side base feels deeper in a passive setup, and maybe  taking out a few boxes in the setup makes it easier to get the system to sound best without being a Naim setup specialist.

Claus     

Thanks for replies. Speakers are SBLs - the olive 250s and SBL are the only elements from the original system I begun with 20 years ago!

I think the question I am trying to ask is if the passive amplifier at the next level up (300 in this case) will be better than active at the level below (250s in this case). And, of course, it may well be they just sound different !

I was told many years ago that the higher amp passive will be better than the lower amps active, and that you should only go active when the passive system is as good as it can be. But in practice it's down to personal opinion in terms of sound and box count. If you are used to active it would seem easiest to simply slot in two 250 DRs. Perhaps you could borrow a 300DR and compare it with your two 250s, which is really the only way to tell? Bear in mind the age of your passive crossovers, which may no longer be performing at their best. 

Cannot answer your question, but I did have active SBL,s many years ago driven by Olive 2x250, and it was a fantastic system. I did have a voice coil thrown by my SBLs which was a known fault and the pair of drivers were replaced foc by Naim. I just wonder if your drive units will actually be OK for the long term and if they are still serviceable?

After hearing some active speakers, I'm perfectly happy with my Dynaudio Passive speakers.

I just don't hear these day and night differences between active and today's excellent passive speakers from Dynaudio or Focal.

I'd say get a NAP 500 if you can.

The advise i heard a few years ago: Nap500 vs 135 x 4 ...was that olive active is far more problematic, too many boxes, connections, shelves, etc, but has the potential to perform extremely well, perhaps better but only when all in tip top fangled condition. Meanwhile a 500 has advantages of synergy with the 552, reliability, less boxes etc... and will most probably be far easier to live with day to day for a dependable performance that delivers more than enough contentment.

I happily settled with a NAP500 going from 2 x 135 passive, however sometimes i still wonder if an active 4 pack would be more fun if the SBLs are to remain as component end game.

SBLs are a brilliant speaker when used with CB and Olive era components, but when the system is comprised of 500 series with front ends to match, the limitations of SBLs will become more apparent.

Personally i would believe a 552 with 2 x 250 active into SBL system should trump a 552-300 SBL system with ease, and changing to a 500  [pre-owned for affordability]  would be the thing to do if you really must , but doing so will probably leave you with the next itch to scratch - upgrading the speakers, and as we know speakers better than SBLs tend to cost a whole lot more. [ Kudos 707s? ]  

Debs

Recent experiences with Kudos speakers (Super 20 and T-707) suggests to me that active 250DR would be a better solution than passive 300DR.  The change from 250DR to 300DR in a passive system with S20s wasn't that much of a change but hearing T-707s active with SNAXO was clearly superior to 300DR passive.  500 passive vs 250DR active is probably a whole different discussion and not something I have experience with.

There must be a reason why the SBL and the 250s have stayed with you for such a long time (considering that your sources and pre are quite current). I believe it's because of the clarity and control of the active system and you would probably miss something essential in a passive system.

But, unlike the other way round, you can easily test the passive option, provided your SBL crossovers are still existing and working.

Many thanks for all the replies.

To elaborate on the demo problem. I and the system are in Sweden, and local dealers only really have lower end Naim. Since I come from UK then I have kept the dealer relationship there.

The SBLs have been in the system for long time because, I think, they have responded well to the changes and also I like the realistic sound they have. So I had not thought of changing them as yet....

Overall from the above then it seems a leaning towards keeping active system with 250 DR then....

I have a Klimax LP12, 552DR, SNAXO with SC (non DR), 2x 250.2s (non DR) and SL2s. I tried a 300 (not DR) and temporarily went back to passive while my 250.2s were being serviced about four years ago. I definitely preferred the presentation of the active 250.2s

Where in Sweeden? There may be better  options if you are close to Copenhagen, there are I believe some serious dealers there, and if not you could talk to the Danish destributor. I think Peter is on the forum from time to time.

Claus

His profile says Sollentuna, which is close to Stockholm.

Martin, as you're in Sweden  then you should get in touch with the distributor - Carl-Michael is a top man and may well be able to arrange a suitable demo for you.

Dear Martin,

You have a great system. Would you mind sharing your impressions of the NDS versus the CD555. I do not think many people have experience from living with both sources side by side over an extended period.

Best regards

Hans

HansW posted:

Dear Martin,

You have a great system.

{Would you mind sharing your impressions of the NDS versus the CD555.}

I do not think many people have experience from living with both sources side by side over an extended period.

Best regards

Hans

Great System indeed!

Naim's Reference CDP & NWP 

"I spoke to a dealer and it is, of course, very hard to demo and compare these set-ups just because of the volume of equipment needed.

{Although he did think remaining active with 250's would be the route.}

Does anybody have experience and can advise?

Thanks !"

I might be a bit bias, but I tend to agree with your dealer and others, who favor the active set-up.

Music is Universal!

Sweden, UK, and even in the USA! 

Enjoy!

Allante93!

HansW posted:

You have a great system. Would you mind sharing your impressions of the NDS versus the CD555. I do not think many people have experience from living with both sources side by side over an extended period.

Need to take account of the 2x 555PS on the NDS when comparing with CD555 if it only uses 1x 555PS.

I tried both CD555 and NDS and both with 2x 555PS and they both benefit significantly and there is (perhaps) a small but to my mind significant difference between the quality and presentation from both very fine sources.
I was left now wanting to part with my CD555 as it did some things like insight, dynamics and bass percussion better than the NDS, but the latter had an allure of its own that I find harder to describe, a fluidity and organic quality which made me want to have it as well, but in the end I've stayed with the CD555, as I have been disappointed with all the hi-res material available I have heard to date that sounded worse, lacking clarity, than the ripped CDs on the NDS, so it removed a driver for that change for me.I would be tempted to run an NDS as well, when funds permit - having 4x 555PS does make it significant if I want to retain my CD555.  

As to Active vs Passive - it is an old story. The short of it is that if you have run Active as a home system for more than a few weeks then it is very hard to return to a passive home system again, so beware! As at first exposure you can be underwhelmed by an Active system, as we usually expect 'more' but Active gives you 'less'. Less temporal-smear, lower colouration - just cleaner and lets the music speak more than the system.

That being said the quality of Amp makes a big difference too. My advice would be that I'd not want to choose between 2x 250DR Active and 1x 500DR Passive, as the two systems will be very different in their strengths and the 500DR is a very special Amp that may just steal the day - but the Active system will still sound correctly faster, as the passive crossover is still there doing its thing.

Still a difficult choice between the above. IMO the 300DR beats a 250DR but not even close to 2x 250DR Active.

DB.

i also had olive active 250's into sbl's

i got the option of a 500 and moved back to passive.

i had initial problems with the passive x-overs as they had gone off left in the loft for many years, naim supplied some new ones, which i don't think is now a option!

BUT, i just was not happy with passive, so now i am back active with 2 x 500's.

once you have lived with an active system, its not easy to go back to passive.

paul

Active with multiple 500DR is better.
...but costs a lot more!

drps posted:

i had initial problems with the passive x-overs as they had gone off left in the loft for many years, naim supplied some new ones, which i don't think is now a option!

 

Good point in favour of an active system: A Snaxo may be longer serviceable than a passive crossover. So one could potentially extend the life of the speakers by going active.

Stop it gents, I'm broke!

Almost bagged a SC from Signals back in July!

The 2011 Model, right before the DR Technologies were available in 2012!

A Gentleman had it on loan, but decided not to part with.

Hence, blew my Active Deal!

Cdx2>282>HCDR>3 x 250.2> Briks

I need a Pre-loved SC & a Spanking Brand New Snaxo 362! 

It's been nearly ten years since I was Active!

{LP 12/Ghenki> Karin> Dirack PS> Linn XO with

Bingo Card> Briks}

Hard to compare, but Linn is Famous for their TT, and Naim, Their Amps!

Now I know why!

Passive Tri- Amped Briks Ain't Bad!

But if I could only get that fluidity that I recall from my Aktiv System, all would be well!

Getting Long Winded, Out!

Allante93!

I went from 4x135s active, with a  S-NAXO and Supercap, to 1x500 driving SL2s and preferred the sound overall with the 500, even non-DR. I should imagine 2x250s would be preferred by most to 1 300, but as opined before, 1 500 might tip it the other way. If you sell the 2 250s and the S NAXO and the PS you would go from 4 boxes to 2, free 1 or 2 levels of Fraim (dependent on the PS) and if you got a used /ex-dem 500,  (logistics issues aside) make a nice dent in the cost (though you'd need 1 set of taller Fraim uprights for the 500 amp unit). 500DR is definitely worthwhile if possible. I suspect you'd be happy with the SBLs for a bit longer (I used the 500 with the SL2s for a few years before Kudos T88s).

Good luck,

Neil

Like Neil above I went from SL2's on a 500 (subsequently DR'd) to Titan 88's and thence, recently to Titan 707's.

When I was running my SL2's on a 300, I considered going active with another 300, or changing the 300 for a 500 - the two options costing almost exactly the same. The efficacy and sonic upgrade of the 500 over the 300 was easily demonstrated, so I stayed passive with a 500. A passive rig keeps the box-count and complexity down; and all loudspeaker options open.

Going as far as one can in passive mode made sonic sense to me. Now I just need that lottery win to order a set of Statement amps.

Good luck with your decision Martin. Keep us posted.

John.

Martin, take care to check if any adjustments are required to the SNAXO if you mix amps. A few years back we (a now 'inactive' Forum member - sadly, and others) tried to mix amps (IIRC) in to active SL2s and things didn't turn out as expected.