CD2 Low Noise Clock. Can somebody explain please?

Posted by: Gigantor on 16 September 2017

Dear Forum Members,

My current system was purchased in the late 80's.

CD player Marantz CD-85. Has a roll-off at 15kHz (Thank you 2017 Mr Google Internet).

Amplifier, Nait XS 2 (2016)

Speakers, Celestion SL6si 84dBSPL

At the moment I am currently comfortable with my system except with the hole above 15kHz.  Which I do not know if I will hear or not.  Though I now know it is there courtesy of reviews on the Internet.

This leaves me with upgrading the source to either a CD5 XS  or a CD2.  The only thing that sticks out on the specification listings is that the CD2 comes with 

and

extra low-noise clock regulation

 

I have seen some you tube video which attempt to explain why it is necessary to have an accurate clock to reduce jitter.  Not that I have ever heard jitter in real life, obviously more experience required which may reduce my pleasure.  Some times it may be better to be left in the dark.

Anyhow, with the inevitable upgrade of the source and owning a number of Jazz K2 laser CD's.  Should I purchase a CD5 XS or a CD2 if money was not an issue.  Currently it is.  Though I am thinking long term.

I know my speakers are a little soft in bass when it comes to 80's soft rock.  Though they do shine, in Jazz, Soul and some instrumental.  More so with stringed instruments with the latter.

A another Forum section has been so kind to recommend many Bach Cd's that I have purchased and now occupy 1/3 of all my CD's.  I am still yet to listen to them all.  An on going pleasure.  Any how side tracked.

I suppose in closing.  What I am trying to say.  Is it necessary with K2 layered CD's do I require the better clock in the CD2?

Age, 54 year old industrial electrician, jet aircraft radio technician and Standards Laboratory Metrologist.  I have always used ear muffs as I am very careful with my hearing as I do enjoy good music.  I would not consider myself an Audiophile.  Just a tech who enjoys good specs as much as he enjoys good music.

Warm regards,

Paul.

Posted on: 16 September 2017 by yeti42

I'm not sure the CD2 is still supported, ie there's no  spare mechanisms  left, the CDS2 I think is supported and the CDX2 is still current as is the CD5xs. Try and hear one in your system, it will be an interesting comparison to the Marantz.

Highly accurate digital clocks were a popular  CD upgrade in the 90s so became a marketing point for new players too. 

How are the Celestions holding up?

Posted on: 16 September 2017 by Gigantor

It looks like I made my first mistake.  I should have CDX2 CD player with the extra low noise clock.

In answer to the Celestion's.  They are doing well.  I definitely note there lack of bass with bands like Dire Straits.  I do not listen to anything more severe.  Well maybe ACDC, Back in Black.  Though most of my music pertains to 80's soft rock pop bands.  This would be 2/3 of the collection.  Including my wife's CD's.  The remaining 1/3 is predominately Bach with about half a dozen albums (K2) of Diana Krall and one Ottis Redding.  The Bach selection is about three dozen titles from all genres.  Strings, piano, Concertos, Solos and everything else.  It is a little overwhelming as I had so many kind replies to "Bach For a Beginner" in this Forum.  This all started this Easter as my local AM station played some Bach for Easter and I found myself enjoying it.  Which is a good thing.

Back to the Celestion's.  They pretty much in mint condition as they are hardly used.  The amplifier I was sold with them was an Amber 50b.  I had no end of problems with this amplifier.  I had had it repaired under warranty.  I repaired it twice.  Then I left the company I had access to a CRO from and passed it onto a recommended repairer from my dealer and that was the last I ever heard of it.  I gave the repairer a circuit diagram as he did not have one and I kissed it good bye.

Time passed and I could no longer stand a house with out music.  I lashed out and bout a Nait XS2.  Maybe I should have purchased the Super Nait2.  Decisions at the time.

Anyhow, the Celstion's perform very well.  I am entranced with them when I have the house to myself and wind the Nait XS2 up to 9 or 10 o'clock.  This works out to about 84dbSPL on my iPhone's app.  This is more than a comfortable level to listen too.  More often than not I have to listen for the bass lines in soft rock pop music.  Though in Soul and Jazz I can comfortably hear it and tap my fingers.  I used to play bass at my local church before a work place accident.  I still have my hands and all my digits.  It is just a psychological thing that my tool bag has led me into danger too many times.  I can no longer use my hands or fingers to do anything.  Even play bass.  It is something I am working through with my doctors.  But that is another story.

As it is winter here in Southern (Cold) Oz and most of the family is confined to bedrooms or the lounge where the stereo is.  I can not as often as I like play CD's unless it is late at night or my wife has retired for the night.  Shelley has a new pup and sleeps with it out in the lounge room.  This will change when the pup reaches six months and then I will have the lounge room back again.

This leads to another interesting topic.  As I am unable to afford a pair of Sonus Speakers, say $8k AUD.  Can any one recommend a good pair of headphones for the Nait XS2 "A Class" headphone amplifier on the main Amp please?  This will allow me to listen to music whilst the TV is on or to music late at night.  Though I am generally in bed before 10pm.

Thank you for your reply Yeti42.  I think I answered your question, the long way round : )

Posted on: 16 September 2017 by Huge

There is a problem pairing an older Marantz TDA1541 based CD player with  Celestion SL series speakers*, and that's a specific problem to do with the age of the speakers.

Yes, the Marantz is slightly rolled off at HF (they used slower analogue filters), but the biggest problem is the age of the electrolytic capacitors in the speakers.  Refreshing the crossovers with a new set of Alcap capacitors (Falcon Acoustics can supply them in the UK) will usually make a big improvement.  This will return much of the 'magic' to voices; but be warned that replacing these with a different type of capacitor (even 'much better' ones) will change the voicing of the speaker substantially.  Whilst the midrange of these speakers was beautifully tuned and presented, they were never particularly articulate or forceful in the bass, but at least they aren't aggressive at the top end (unlike many of the Mission speakers of that era, which could cause intolerable levels of bleeding ear syndrome).

If you do sort out the crossovers, also check the internal connectors for tarnishing and replace as necessary.


*  In the case of the older copper tweeter, the roll off above 16kHz and sharp drop above 18kHz (but with fewer ultrasonic break-up modes than the later aluminium tweeter) is a feature of the design and can't be overcome, but the capacitors will be even older.

Posted on: 16 September 2017 by yeti42

I have an early CDX2, bought secondhand from a well known used Naim dealer in the UK. It's oddly sensitive to what it's sat on and even whether the power lead touches the rack. On my previous steel and MDF rack and playing through 282/ hicap/250 into Thiel CS1.6 speakers the music didn't hold together all that well and the upper piano notes rang unpleasantly. When I changed the rack to Naim Fraim Lite the music was much more coherent but still the ringng, the latter went when I stopped the CDX2's power cable from touching the rack shelf. Before the CDX2 I had a CD5x, a lower resolution player but it worked well without mucking about with racks and cables. It's the predecessor of the CD5xs and this is probably your best bet if you're keeping the Nait longterm but try to get an audition if you can.

I think Huge had been reading the same web sites as me about the SL6 s, I also saw an admonishment to only use the Alcaps of the same value when renewing the crossovers. I had Mission 700 s from 81 that I modified the crossovers on to liven them up a bit. The foam bass driver surrounds perrished after about 10 years, when the second ones went I spent month auditioning speakers at home before buying the Thiels. The Celestion's welded surround seems to fare much better so if you still like them give the caps a refresh and keep using them.

Posted on: 16 September 2017 by Huge

I also very well remember interviewing a pair of Celestion SL6s during summer of 1986.  Great for vocals and chamber music, but not an all rounder.  I bought a pair of Spendor SP2s instead.

The selection of capacitors for crossovers is a particularly sensitive balancing act and the like for like replacement principle is well established; all I needed to do was see if I could look up the manufacturer and type, and then see if anyone still sells them.