A penny for your thoughts? Replacing a CDS3/555PS with a streamer

Whatever you buy I'd recommend getting a Roon compatible device.

This seems the pick of the bunch  

http://nadac.merging.com/product/nadac-player

.sjb

Why sign up to spending money for Roon, I tried a trial version, not impressed. 

Sloop John B posted:

Whatever you buy I'd recommend getting a Roon compatible device.

This seems the pick of the bunch  

http://nadac.merging.com/product/nadac-player

Thanks SJB, I've never heard of that company.  Swiss too.  This warrants further investigation...

If you already have a Naim streamer/Uniti/Muso in your second system, you might consider weather you want to use the same control app for a streamer in your main system, as well as allowing multiroom operation if that appeals. In this case, the obvious choice must be an NDS with your existing 555. (You should also consider weather or not the replacement for the NDS might be worth waiting for - it is surely on the horizon somewhere, given that the new streaming platform has already arrived with the new Uniti range - but of course, this might easily be a year or two away yet.)

Again, if you prefer to stick with Naim, you might like what the NDAC does with your 555, in which case a lesser transport in the form of an NDX could work for you, or one of the many non-Naim alternatives. Likewise, NDX/Chord DAC of some type. I am intentionally avoiding any expressions of preference here, as I believe these are too personal to be of any real use to you.

Finally, a brief glance at the Streaming Audio forum should be enough to scare you into installing a decent wired network connection for said streamer. I really don't believe you need to do anything extravagant, expensive or exotic here. Save that for your turntable! Or at least, get things up and running reliably first, and then tweak the network later if the madness takes hold. Good luck! 

Go for the nds, straght forward and good, no hassle ....

As Bert says!

The CDS3 is the best CD player I never owned. The fact that we run the NDS is not a coincidence. It's like the CDS3's spiritual successor. Sort of. Although way better and more versatile. But that's just my ears. Trust yours.

A very well known UK Naim dealer currently offers a preloved NDS -- the description of a "very fine example" suggest a very good condition, and the deal comes with burndy package. Tempted? 

I went from CDS3 to NDS a few years ago. No hesitation in making the switch. I'm in the camp that thinks ripped CD's somehow sound better than the originals, so a big fan of streaming. However, I might pause a bit if you really love your vinyl. CDS3 is still a great player and if you find it so comprehensively outmusiced by your records, then you might also might think the same about the streamer? Check NDS on home dem first ?

NDS - haveing heard both CDS3 and NDS into the same 500-series system, I can honestly say - NDS is as good as. And even better as it can play high res audio files.

Adam

PS `good choice on the aiff format - that's what I use when purchasing high-res music.

There was recently an NDS vs Dave thread, but whilst there are avid fans of each, IIRC no-one contributed direct comparative experience .... so maybe it needs a pioneer to audition one against the other.

FT I currently run an Aurender into DAVE, and whilst i have not home auditioned the NDS/555 i did previously own the NDX/PSX. I have however compared the NDS/555 to my then NDX/XPS a couple of times at a local dealers. Needless to say i much prefer the Aurender/DAVE, to me they are not even comparable. Should add the Naim was with a Chord TT at that time and not the DAVE. If you want a streamer that just works and all you want to do is select and play music, then have a look at the Aurender. No UPNP software to faff about with, its basic front end is just a joy to use although simplistic, and to my ears sounds fantastic. As always you need to try to decide. 

Thank you all for your initial thoughts.  

We installed a CAT6A network at home as part of our first entry into the world of networked music with the mac mini, Naim DAC-V1, NAP140 & PMC DB1I.  It has been rock solid from day 1 (beginner's luck, I guess).  There's an RJ45 wall socket a couple of metres from the hifi system that we would use. If the streamer needs anything better, then I'll rely on the dealer's expertise.

The NDS is the one to beat and the dealer who supplied our DAC-V1 happens to have a nearly new one in stock...
If only to satisfy my curiosity, there will have to be an NDS vs. DAVE comparison.  I have heard a Melco + DAVE at TonyM's house (thank you Tony) but found it relentless & tiring after 20 mins or so.  However, the Melco + DAVE's predecessor was fabulous.  Worth another try but in our system.

No rush then, but it will be an enjoyable journey.  I'll post updates as and when there's something to say.

Best regards

FT

Perhaps you can motivate a dealer to organize the demo Dave versus NDS. Invite some close by interested people and it could be an enjoyable and exciting event...

Foot Tapper posted:

"If anyone has compared these options, I'd welcome any insights from your experiences.  Equally, if there is an alternative whizz bang way of entering the world of high end streaming (Sim Audio Moon perhaps), I would be interested to hear about it."

Since your opening post enquired about alternative ways of entering high end streaming, I would strongly recommend that in addition to checking out the NDS vs Chord Dave DAC (with a suitable streamer) , you should also check out the latest Linn top end alternative - the Klimax DS/3. Alternatively if you would like to save quite a bit of money, then the KDS/1 (in particular) or the KDS/2 are now available at bargain prices on the used market. Fantastic sound quality (from any perspective and with any genre of music) and a very well sorted front end interface (particularly the Windows 10 version or the app).

Another possible cheaper option would be the new Sonore ultraRendu (with suitable power supply and DAC - possibly a Hugo TT or Hugo 2?). Excellent sound quality for the money, but quite a bit trickier to get up and running reliably.

The important thing is to have fun. I wish you lots of it. 

Thank you Harry, very well said.  I hadn't thought about Bert's idea, but upon reflection, it's rather a good one.

Thanks HMACK, good point re the Linn KDS

Best regards, FT 

This morning, I had the pleasure of a first comparison between a Naim NDS and a Chord DAVE.

Both were fed digital music from the same Melco N1Zh-2 unit (the middle one at £4k of the 3 Melco units).  I brought along some CDs, as that is mainly what I play, then ripped them straight into the Melco unit, so the digital source music was identical for both NDA & DAVE. 

DAVE was connected to the Melco unit via a Chord Signature Tuned Array something USB cable. 

NDS was connected to the Melco via a posh ethernet cable, the same Chorde Signature type if I am not mistaken.

Both the NDS and DAVE fed a 552DR, 500DR and Wilson Yvette system.  The electronics were split into brain & brawn stacks on 2 racks of Naim Fraim.  Speaker cables were Naim Superlumina.

Now, to be fair to the NDS, the power supply was an XPSDR, not a 555DR, but this still makes for a £9-10k Naim streamer.

Impressions to follow later today.

FT

Foot tapper posted:

This morning, I had the pleasure of a first comparison between a Naim NDS and a Chord DAVE.

 

Impressions to follow later today.

FT

You tease !

Yes, sorry James! On a train now though, so 'til later...

Note to self: check out this thread later this evening!

I'm sure we all await your comments, Ian.

Ah, back now.

So, the NDS/XPSDR made perfectly fine music.  It was smooth, clear, lacked any indication of sharp, harsh edginess.  It would be easy to listen to for a long time.

Then we switched to DAVE.  Sometimes you just know after the first 2 or 3 notes when everything has stepped up a gear or 2.  This was one of those moments. 

The same band of musicians who had rolled into work that morning  to play on the NDS suddenly woke up.  This time they were enjoying their music.  Music had life.  It held my interest.  Transients soared much higher and the dynamic range just expanded.  Feet started to tap (when appropriate).  The spacial imaging sharpened up and grew by about 50% in all directions (and this is an aspect of hifi that I'm not normally that excited about).  Basslines had considerably more drive & power.  Unlike the last time that I'd heard a DAVE, this time there was no relentless edge to the sound. 

It sounded a step up from my CD player, in a way that the NDS/XPSDR was not.  Usual caveats about different room & system apply here.  However, I recall the first time that I heard a CDS3 with XPS in the system at home.  While I admired what it did very well, I didn't fall for it.  It took the 555PS to make all the difference to the CDS3.  I wonder if the same is true of the NDS?

So, round 1 is a clear win by some way for the Melco-DAVE over Melco-NDS/XPSDR.  I think we might need a round 2 with an NDS/555PSDR.  Oh, and the Wilson Yvette speakers?  Ugly and pricey they may be, but I do like the music that they make, even more than the Sophia 2s that I enjoyed at home a few years ago.

Has anyone else made a similar comparison?  If so, I would be most interested to learn of your experiences.

Best regards, FT

There was a recent thread inviting comparisons between NDS and Dave, but I don't recall anyone having recounted a direct comparison.

But that effect of Dave just two or three bars in exactly mirrors my experience - and my musician son next to we who breathed the word 'wow' at that point. For me the wow factor has never left, but I never compared with NDS.

Foot tapper posted:

Ah, back now.

So, the NDS/XPSDR made perfectly fine music.  It was smooth, clear, lacked any indication of sharp, harsh edginess.  It would be easy to listen to for a long time.

Then we switched to DAVE.  Sometimes you just know after the first 2 or 3 notes when everything has stepped up a gear or 2.  This was one of those moments. 

The same band of musicians who had rolled into work that morning  to play on the NDS suddenly woke up.  This time they were enjoying their music.  Music had life.  It held my interest.  Transients soared much higher and the dynamic range just expanded.  Feet started to tap (when appropriate).  The spacial imaging sharpened up and grew by about 50% in all directions (and this is an aspect of hifi that I'm not normally that excited about).  Basslines had considerably more drive & power.  Unlike the last time that I'd heard a DAVE, this time there was no relentless edge to the sound. 

It sounded a step up from my CD player, in a way that the NDS/XPSDR was not.  Usual caveats about different room & system apply here.  However, I recall the first time that I heard a CDS3 with XPS in the system at home.  While I admired what it did very well, I didn't fall for it.  It took the 555PS to make all the difference to the CDS3.  I wonder if the same is true of the NDS?

So, round 1 is a clear win by some way for the Melco-DAVE over Melco-NDS/XPSDR.  I think we might need a round 2 with an NDS/555PSDR.  Oh, and the Wilson Yvette speakers?  Ugly and pricey they may be, but I do like the music that they make, even more than the Sophia 2s that I enjoyed at home a few years ago.

Has anyone else made a similar comparison?  If so, I would be most interested to learn of your experiences.

Best regards, FT

i don’t know if it can explain a bit, but , from what i read in some reviews, melco seems to work at his best in usb mode with dac.

But more and more users seem to prefer melco / nds vs nds/ nas.....So melco in upnp is also a good combo.

The other thing is that nds , in upnp mode, works at his best when the network is optimized ( my experience and others). I don’t know how it was optimized in your friend’s system.....

One last point : tonym and dark bear found the melco / dave boring. They preferred the melco/ previous chord dac combination.  So it is interesting that you found the contrary.

A lot of mystery in this comparison.....

That's very interesting. You really have to try it with a PS555DR. I have never heard a Chord DAVE, but I am quite certain that the NDS/PS555DR and NAC552/PS552DR work exceedingly well together. I also remember when I tried a PS555 on my CDS2 it was a massive step up relative to the XPS.

When do you think you will be doing round two?