NDS versus NDX

It's not a fair comparison I'm afraid 

The best way to test it, in my opinion, is to set up an NDS and let it play for several days. Than swap to NDX and see if you miss anything... I certainly did - that's why one of my NDX's is gone and it was replaced by an NDS.

I've active Nbl's , 3 stereo 250.2's 552dr/Xps primary source ndx , would the nds be a major jump, is naim coming out with an improved model, there are a few nds's out there previously loved ? Options 

Thank you to Adam and Zoot - as I thought, a dem for an hour is not going to work

Yeah it's one of those experiences where you have to run it a bit longer to appreciate the full perspective of what the NDS is capable off. Once you have experienced it you wouldn't want to go back anymore.

I am afraid NDS is a no brainer at 252DR/300DR or higher level unless you want to hook NDX to an external DAC such as nDAC of the likes of Hugo and only use it as transport. 

Chag -

I could not give up FM on the NDX, as good as the NDS is.  Naim DAC/555 spans the gap pretty well.  More digital inputs is a consolation, too.  The Naim system really shows its sophistication when the App is bossing the NDX-FM and Naim DAC, all from the other end of the house.

Nick

Is it possible for you to take the NDS home for a few days after the demonstration? Often you can only tell how good something is by going back to what you had before and seeing whether you miss the new thing. The risks of making quick decisions was brought home to me recently. We’ve been beta testing firmware and were asked to try two versions. I was convinced one was better, then after a day I swapped to the first one and thought that was better. Then I tried the second one again and wasn’t sure any more. It turned out that due to an oversight they were in fact both the same, which is why I ended up unable to tell them apart after a few days. But initially I was was convinced that one was better than the other. It’s easy to hear that a change is better on initial hearing, solely because you expect it to be better, or have been told by your clever dealer that it is. 

That said, I’d expect the NDS to be clearly better if the change from NDX to NDS is anything like the change from CDX2 to CDS3. It would also allow the full capabilities of the 555PS to be used. 

When I initially unpacked my test NDS it didn't seem to do much more than my NDX (powered by 555PS).
It was a demo unit, hardly used, so there was a brief 'warming up' preriod too.

I had the test unit for 2 weeks. I vividly remember the day when the NDS has to be returned. I sloted my NDX back in and thought to myself 'what happened? Someone took my music away'.

What followed was 3 weeks of 'should I, should I not....'. Eventually I gave in and orderd my NDS. Bliss....

There is understandably a world of difference in the resolution and quality of the audio out from the NDX compared to the NDS... however as suggested if the NDX is used as a transport for another off board DAC it can take you in a different direction all together... its what I do. The NDX makes a *superb* transport... however to get every drop of goodness from the NDX in this mode - remember to force it into transport only mode in the setup... i.e. disable audio output.. it then, so I understand, disables unnecessary audio replay functions that otherwise could detract from the overall performance of it in dedicated transport mode.

Nah…get an NDS. I have owned an NDX and now an NDS, both for several years and there is no comparison. Like you I have a 252 with a SuperCapDR and it is certainly capable of extracting the extra resolution, detail and subtly the NDS has on offer.

As others have said, a lengthy home demo should crystallise the differences between the NDX and NDS.

Thank you all. I use ordinary Ethernet cable to link my NDX. Is it worthwhile to use specialist (expensive) cable to improve sound quality?

m.paul taylor posted:

Thank you all. I use ordinary Ethernet cable to link my NDX. Is it worthwhile to use specialist (expensive) cable to improve sound quality?

Yes it does make a difference to use a good Ethernet cable in particular between the last switchbox and a network player like NDX or NDS. It  doesn't have to be the most expensive though. I am quite happy with MeiCord Opal. I have been considering Chord Indigo but haven't gone there yet.  

Chag -  

What a fantastic resource this forum is! Thank you 

m.paul taylor posted:

Thank you all. I use ordinary Ethernet cable to link my NDX. Is it worthwhile to use specialist (expensive) cable to improve sound quality?

This varies, there really is no need to, but you will find most leads ‘sound’ different because of the RF coupling they have with the streamer... you don’t need to spend a lot...

I use various Chord streaming cables - all sound good and a little bit better than a basic Cat6.

The two key wires are those from the nas to the switch, and from the switch to the streamer. It also helps to have a good switch. I use AudioQuest Vodka cables, which I find really good. They are not cheap, so it helps to have the streamer, nas and switch relatively close together. Our streamer and nas are only two feet apart, albeit with a brick wall between them. 

Thanks. My internet is routed via Devolo powerline adapters - does that make a difference?

 I initially started with a few lengths of freebee Cat5 when I first started while I worked out where the bits needed to be housed.    A week later I had installed Cat7 from NAS to router to NDX,   & yes the difference was noticeable but the cable I bought was mid price & for sure not exotic expensive.    A week later while playing albums for about 3 hours the router overheated enough to melt the plastic,  next morning I added a network switch & that boosted the SQ more noticeably than did the Cat7  That  outer was moved on very quickly & I've had 2 others since,  but I've always insisted on keeping a pukka switch.

Over time I tried a few other & expensive cables & although I heard variations in sound,  it was subtle & I'm not sure the change was enough or better to justify the cost.    I have in the meantime changed the Cat7 for Cat6 - MeiCord Opal - & I have no intention of getting into ethernet experiments in the future.

m.paul taylor posted:

Thanks. My internet is routed via Devolo powerline adapters - does that make a difference?

Devolo alert! Devolo alert!

One of the worst things that can happen....

Yes, I would remove those, they produce massive amounts of RF noise which really does work against much of the careful design of Naim audio components, and don’t really offer true duplex Ethernet, they are a kind of consumer kludge .. if you need to use wireless I would use Wi-fi which is properly designed for the job, even if you need to use two Wi-fi access points in adhoc mode providing a point to point link.

As far other components, a good catalyst switch will help.. they seem to produce less noise and possibly have better quality physical layer clocks possibly producing less RF side bands be wary of so called linear power supplies for said switches, as unless they are specifically designed for the switch can make matters worse with respect to RF noise emissions.

I agree with Mike and Nigel - a good switch is very helpful. Cisco do know what they are doing....

m.paul taylor posted:

Thanks. My internet is routed via Devolo powerline adapters - does that make a difference?

I would really seriously consider getting shot of those.   They pollute the mains (including your near neighbours) radiate RFI & pollute your data stream.

The practicalities are daunting. The internet comes into a room which cannot in practical terms be linked by cable to my listening room. Any ideas? My dealer was not keen to link by wifi to my NDX

Yes, as I said use two Wi-fi access points in ad-hoc point to point mode... you can hang a switch and connections off the remote access point... the other alternative is lay flat Ethernet cable under the carpet... as long as you are within 100metres of length you are fine.

Devolos simply send dirty noisy RF carriers down your mains wiring turning your mains wiring and appliances into a huge wide band antenna... causing not insignificant near field RF emissions within your house in the process... quite shocking really..

Thanks Simon. There are brick walls in the way which rules out cable unless I created a new access point. I am not techy enough to understand your wireless ad hoc point to point. Your post makes me doubt whether a dem at the dealership is worthwhile as it will not replicate my home. More importantly, it makes me wonder if there is any point upgrading to NDS in view of your post (and others which agree with you). I am very grateful for you sharing your expertise