Supernait2 “speed” and cables issue

Hi. Imo it's a general characteristic of most Naim amps, it's the Naim sound. To me, Naca5 improves on this aspect. TQ black 2 (have a recent thread about it and Naca5) gives a fuller sound and gives a more natural flow (which I like with some music, but not all). The first gen TQ black also ruins the prat, but instruments seem to be doing their own thing with it. Best way to know is to try for yourself.

What's your room size / speakers / source / type of music?

TOBYJUG posted:

Hello and welcome. You say you have only just got the SN2. Most will say try living and listening with it for a good while and them some.  

You might well find after your ears have become accustomed that to " fix " it may well " break" it.  Try it with the naca later as a benchmark.   If you still feel you would like a more laid back presentation there are plenty of ways with cables.

I ve had it in demo with nordost cables in demo....now I’ve bought mine...problem is I do not have cables yet...so don’t know which way to go to start...

rainsoothe posted:

Hi. Imo it's a general characteristic of most Naim amps, it's the Naim sound. To me, Naca5 improves on this aspect. TQ black 2 (have a recent thread about it and Naca5) gives a fuller sound and gives a more natural flow (which I like with some music, but not all). The first gen TQ black also ruins the prat, but instruments seem to be doing their own thing with it. Best way to know is to try for yourself.

What's your room size / speakers / source / type of music?

thank you! I have b&w cm9 (will upgrade soon) and I’m more into rock,rap,r’n’b,metal, electronic stuff but zero jazz/classical.

I love detailed and realistic sound but with firm bass...what do you mean for natural sound refering to the speed issue? do they “slower” a bit?? do they lose in control in comparison to naca5? ever heard nordost? what you suggest to keep realism/detail but no “fast forward” effect? (ok for the naim sound but exasperate it would not be ok). 

I’ve never understood this prat thing, and really think it’s best to forget about prat, bass, inky blackness and other twaddle and see if alternative wires help you get further into the music. Does it make you tap your feet, nod your head, dance, cry or whatever? Nordost and Naim is a fairly unusual choice. I used Naim A5 for years, then tried Chord Odyssey, which made the music boring and went back to A5. Later, when I had PMC speakers I preferred TQB to A5. As to Rainsoothe’s point about it ruining prat, I have no idea what this means. I really liked them. When I got some Naim speakers the TQB wasn’t so good, so I went back to Naim cables. As it’s a new amplifier I’d give it a month or two to sort itself out and then see what you think. It’s always worth borrowing some A5 from your dealer as a benchmark. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

 Does it make you tap your feet, nod your head, dance, cry or whatever?

That's the prat thing. And for me, in my system, the first TQb killed it - stuff was detailed and neat, but in a "here's your music" kind of way, as opposed to "fk me, that's awesome". Again, with my system and (debatable) tastes.

TQ Black doesn't kill the prat at all on the SN2 imho, in fact I'd say its a great combination and I found Naca to be crude in comparison but its all a matter of taste at the end of the day.  Spend a bit of time with your amp and give yourself time to get used to its sound and see how you feel in a few weeks.  If the amp is brand new I found that it took several weeks to burn in anyway and to get to its best, but again there are those who doubt such things.  Take your time before you change anything

My dealer tells me nordost isn't good with Naim, which I think is a widely but not universally held view. A5 is a dead cert to work well with Naim amps though it's not fancy enough for some people. At a fairly educated guess your amp was designed with it as the default cable so borrow a set for as long as you can while the amp settles in and you get used to it. The speed thing is not usually an acusation levelled at a supernait so it may well go with a cable change and a bit of settling in. Avoid switching mode power supplies on the same circuit if you can and certainly keep as much ring main as possible between any you can't avoid and your system. What is it sat on?

Hm... I haven't heard Nordost, but with that type of music I mostly prefer Naca5. Tqb2 is also controlled, but not as forward as the Naim cable, and timbres are more real. You really should try both, and judge by yourself, and Naca5 should be the first on the list. 

But first of all, I agree with everyone that suggested giving your setup some time and see how you get on with it - at least a couple of weeks (or months even). It's free, and the SN2 will probably improve. Oh, and don't turn it off.

Hang on, are you saying that you just have the SN2 but no cables so haven't actually got to use it at home? Have you got a source and speakers? For a safe bet on cables, just get the A5, and get the dealer to solder on the plugs that came with the amp - use them at the amp end. 

yeti42 posted:

My dealer tells me nordost isn't good with Naim, which I think is a widely but not universally held view. A5 is a dead cert to work well with Naim amps though it's not fancy enough for some people. At a fairly educated guess your amp was designed with it as the default cable so borrow a set for as long as you can while the amp settles in and you get used to it. The speed thing is not usually an acusation levelled at a supernait so it may well go with a cable change and a bit of settling in. Avoid switching mode power supplies on the same circuit if you can and certainly keep as much ring main as possible between any you can't avoid and your system. What is it sat on?

I liked a lot the overall sound with nordost the only thing was that speed thing do the point was trying to figure out if it was cable depending or not. 

the amp is sitting in a wood surface

rainsoothe posted:

Hm... I haven't heard Nordost, but with that type of music I mostly prefer Naca5. Tqb2 is also controlled, but not as forward as the Naim cable, and timbres are more real. You really should try both, and judge by yourself, and Naca5 should be the first on the list. 

But first of all, I agree with everyone that suggested giving your setup some time and see how you get on with it - at least a couple of weeks (or months even). It's free, and the SN2 will probably improve. Oh, and don't turn it off.

ok for the realism on the tellurium q but isolating the “speed issue” which one is to be prefered? 

do you give me the advice of not tuning it off for a better burn in purpose or for the entire life? 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Hang on, are you saying that you just have the SN2 but no cables so haven't actually got to use it at home? Have you got a source and speakers? For a safe bet on cables, just get the A5, and get the dealer to solder on the plugs that came with the amp - use them at the amp end. 

no I got it home in demo with nordost cables...now I’ve got mine but no cables yet!

Hi,

Superb amp.   

It will take a while to really get on song. 

On cables.  Different brands are subtly different.  I've just spent several weeks swapping some Chord Signature TA stuff in and out of my system.  Certain things - resolution mainly - improved but overall there was no clear conclusion.   I think I'm coming to the realisation that it's best to stick with Naim wires.  

Naca could be the answer. 

Good luck. 

Lindsay

....and what about rca ? With a non naim source which one suites best the naca5 route?

What does your dealer say?

Christopher_M posted:

What does your dealer say?

NORDOST RED DAWN is the only answer for him....and doesn’t even want to give naca5 a try

"Faster" is a good thing, makes you wanna dance. Naim has an urgency in the sound character that is addictive. If you don;t like it Naim is not for you and you will never like it!

Robiwan posted:

"Faster" is a good thing, makes you wanna dance. Naim has an urgency in the sound character that is addictive. If you don;t like it Naim is not for you and you will never like it!

I like it but was trying to understand which was the speed intended by the amp and not exacerbated by cables....

The burning question is....what source are you using? If the Supernait is an upgrade on whatever amp you had before, are your sources up to it, or is the better amp exposing their weakness? Is your gear set up properly (your dealer should help you with this?)  You mention RCA connections, which suggests that you probably have non-Naim sources - you should try to get cables that at least have DIN plugs on the amp end.

Regarding speaker cable, I would suggest getting NACA5 as you will then hear the amp the way it was designed to work. Once you're happy with the setup and everything is burned in, maybe try other cables for comparison.

ChrisSU posted:

The burning question is....what source are you using? If the Supernait is an upgrade on whatever amp you had before, are your sources up to it, or is the better amp exposing their weakness? Is your gear set up properly (your dealer should help you with this?)  You mention RCA connections, which suggests that you probably have non-Naim sources - you should try to get cables that at least have DIN plugs on the amp end.

Regarding speaker cable, I would suggest getting NACA5 as you will then hear the amp the way it was designed to work. Once you're happy with the setup and everything is burned in, maybe try other cables for comparison.

source is a mac with flac files to a non naim dac and I’m happy with this with the sn2....I don’t find any weakenesses except for that thing I was wondering about speed. it’s a unique way to play music of course but this makes you answer....is all the rest  (consumer and mant hifi products) wrong as they seem to sound slower and we are used to that?

the dealer believes it’s useless to get rca-din cable if the source/dac is non naim.....!!!!

yeti42 posted:

 The speed thing is not usually an acusation levelled at a supernait so it may well go with a cable change and a bit of settling in.

That may have been the case with the original SN with the built in DAC, and the extra circuitry that went with it, but as an owner of the SN2, I can fully understand what the OP is referring to. The DR circuity and a pre-amp section based on the 552, the SN2 is a blistering fast sounding amp, sometimes ruthlessly revealing sounding amp, with or without Naca5. They also increased the size of the transformer to give the amp greater headroom compared to the original SN.  I actually thought, and in my opinion, the SN2 sounded faster, and not as full, round sounding, as the 250-2 DR I had on home demo.

When I inquired directly to Naim about the use of Nordost cabling, they recommended against its use.

badlands posted:

yeti42 posted:

 The speed thing is not usually an acusation levelled at a supernait so it may well go with a cable change and a bit of settling in.

That may have been the case with the original SN with the built in DAC, and the extra circuitry that went with it, but as an owner of the SN2, I can fully understand what the OP is referring to. The DR circuity and a pre-amp section based on the 552, the SN2 is a blistering fast sounding amp, sometimes ruthlessly revealing sounding amp, with or without Naca5. I actually thought, and in my opinion, the SN2 sounded faster, and not as full, round sounding, as the 250-2 DR I had on home demo.

When I inquired directly to Naim about the use of Nordost cabling, they recommended against its use.

 

this is great news! so you went for 250-2 dr??

and...full round sounding you mean sacrificing some detail of the sn2? or not? 

same for power declared (sn2 is 10w more than pre power combo) does it loose a little punch??

thank you

No, I actually bought the SN2 instead of the pre- power combo. I didn't feel the sound quality difference was worth the additional cost of the separates pair. The SN2 does NOT have more detail, it just presents it in a different way. The SN2 and 250-2 are both rated at 80 watts per channel, no 10 watts difference.

It did sound leaner to me than the pre-power duo. But the SN2 is not lacking in bass punch.

I would recommend you read the review from What Hi Fi magazine of the SN2, it compares it to the original SN, which they say sounded kind of lazy compared to the SN2, you can Google it!!!

999inmydreams666 posted:

badlands posted:

yeti42 posted:

 The speed thing is not usually an acusation levelled at a supernait so it may well go with a cable change and a bit of settling in.

That may have been the case with the original SN with the built in DAC, and the extra circuitry that went with it, but as an owner of the SN2, I can fully understand what the OP is referring to. The DR circuity and a pre-amp section based on the 552, the SN2 is a blistering fast sounding amp, sometimes ruthlessly revealing sounding amp, with or without Naca5. I actually thought, and in my opinion, the SN2 sounded faster, and not as full, round sounding, as the 250-2 DR I had on home demo.

When I inquired directly to Naim about the use of Nordost cabling, they recommended against its use.

 

this is great news! so you went for 250-2 dr??

and...full round sounding you mean sacrificing some detail of the sn2? or not? 

same for power declared (sn2 is 10w more than pre power combo) does it loose a little punch??

thank you

Here's the review I'm referring to, enjoy!

Naim Supernait 2 review | What Hi-Fi?

badlands posted:

No, I actually bought the SN2 instead of the pre- power combo. I didn't feel the sound quality difference was worth the additional cost of the separates pair. The SN2 does NOT have more detail, it just presents it in a different way. The SN2 and 250-2 are both rated at 80 watts per channel, no 10 watts difference.

It did sound leaner to me than the pre-power duo. But the SN2 is not lacking in bass punch.

I would recommend you read the review from What Hi Fi magazine of the SN2, it compares it to the original SN, which they say sounded kind of lazy compared to the SN2, you can Google it!!!

oh I thought you were talkin about nap 200 dr with 202 pre and asking if that pre power combo was missing punch. anyways thank you for your advice! so you accept that “fast” characteristic ? it makes me sometimes uncinfortable thinking it may be artefact sometimes. do you use naca5?