Supernait2 “speed” and cables issue

I actually prefer that "fast" characteristic. I even bought a HiCap DR to enhance that characteristic!!

I do use Naca5, that decision is based more on amp compatibility than actual all out sound quality, although I do think Naca5 sounds excellent when it is compared to the other cables mentioned on this forum.

That and the peace of mind I get knowing that the amp and cable were made to go together, no instability worries, that may or may not be the case with other cables, I just think they have a great synergy together, and never felt that my system is lacking in any way with their use.

As a side note, just for my own curiosity, I just recently tried a SCDR with the SN2, outrageous!!!!!

I never understood that WHF review. It is simply untrue. The SN1 has no lack in dynamics or is lazy.

It might very well be that the OP saves much money by 'downgrading' from SN2 to SN1 and finds luck there. No fuz with cables etc ...

Check out your sources, play with speaker positioning (close the rear ports of the speakers - this will let the amp work more, put them closer to the wall - this will compensate for the reduction in bass).

There is no mention yet of your Dac. I found that the dac which is used is most important for the SQ. MP3 etc makes the music flat and thin.

In my experience, when the music is good, it is actually slower because it involves you so much - observation of details - space, air etc... Overall, its is also faster because time tend to fly when you have fun.

Goodnight

I'm not saying anything is "better", it's all subjective, that's why I'm saying you should try for yourself. A 3.5m pair of Naca5 would be my first go-to (or 5m if you can accommodate that) - they're really stiff, so take that into consideration, as it might not be an option. And yes, about leaving it on - Naim recommend that, for optimal performance, you never turn their stuff off - unless there's a thunderstorm or you're going on vacation or something. 

Also, as the others have stated, the source is very important, and so is the file type of your music. A very well regarded partner for the SN2 on these forums is Chord Hugo dac.

999inmydreams666 posted:

ChrisSU posted:

The burning question is....what source are you using? If the Supernait is an upgrade on whatever amp you had before, are your sources up to it, or is the better amp exposing their weakness? Is your gear set up properly (your dealer should help you with this?)  You mention RCA connections, which suggests that you probably have non-Naim sources - you should try to get cables that at least have DIN plugs on the amp end.

Regarding speaker cable, I would suggest getting NACA5 as you will then hear the amp the way it was designed to work. Once you're happy with the setup and everything is burned in, maybe try other cables for comparison.

source is a mac with flac files to a non naim dac and I’m happy with this with the sn2....I don’t find any weakenesses except for that thing I was wondering about speed. it’s a unique way to play music of course but this makes you answer....is all the rest  (consumer and mant hifi products) wrong as they seem to sound slower and we are used to that?

the dealer believes it’s useless to get rca-din cable if the source/dac is non naim.....!!!!

Your dealer is wrong. Get a phono to din cable for best performance. 

Ardbeg10y posted:

I never understood that WHF review. It is simply untrue. The SN1 has no lack in dynamics or is lazy.

 

That is true that the SN1 is not a lazy sounding amp per say. The problem becomes noticeable when you directly compare it to a SN2, so I do see where WHF is coming from in their description. It's not only the SN1 that can sound that way when compared to a SN2, other amps you would not normally describe that way can also sound lazy and lacking in dynamics when compared directly to a SN2.

As an example, when my dealer delivered my Dynaudio speakers, he was taken aback at the immediacy of the sound, he doesn't sell Naim, but he does sell some pretty high end electronics that are not lazy sounding and definitely not lacking in dynamics, but compared to Naim, they can sound that way.

You can just as easily say that other amps sound more refined, fuller, rounder and proper compared to a SN2. I guess it's just how you perceive things. It's just the way it is.

Hi & Welcome, "I've just got a SN2 and it's perfect but..."

Well you have to give it a little time to run in first, which if its like my 202/200 took a few months. The 'fast' effect as you describe it is part of the sound of Naim amps, I recall Julian telling me Naim used transistors with a very quick rise time to achieve this but that was a long time ago.

I'm fairly certain the NAC5 will be  abetter match cable wise, however it could be your room acoustics being on the bright side, which is a guess, what type of music, source & speakers do you have? just my thoughts.

999inmydreams666 posted:

Christopher_M posted:

What does your dealer say?

NORDOST RED DAWN is the only answer for him....and doesn’t even want to give naca5 a try

Given what you wrote about your 'dealer' it's high time you ditched him. What sort of a Naim dealer is that doesn't want to try NACA5????

Nordost speaker cables appear to have wrong specifications for the Naim amps. 

And a hearesy of not using DIN sockets for a Maim connection....

Yes Nordost cables are very expensive. Ask the dealer to lend some naca to get you up and running - which you would be sure to buy. Rather than get fobbed of with the Nordost cables. If the dealer is pushing you to purchase Nordost speaker and other cables they need to be told to back off the pressure - as you might be interested in the future.    Sometimes some members of the hifi trade can be a little pushy and single minded and in need a good bxllxcking.

Although saying that,  I would be very happy with a SN2 and a full Red Dawn Nordost Loom.  

NFG posted:

Hi & Welcome, "I've just got a SN2 and it's perfect but..."

Well you have to give it a little time to run in first, which if its like my 202/200 took a few months. The 'fast' effect as you describe it is part of the sound of Naim amps, I recall Julian telling me Naim used transistors with a very quick rise time to achieve this but that was a long time ago.

I'm fairly certain the NAC5 will be  abetter match cable wise, however it could be your room acoustics being on the bright side, which is a guess, what type of music, source & speakers do you have? just my thoughts.

actually it were the bass freqs to give that sensation! it was firm pushing and controlled but that was that “a little too much” . I have tried a demo unit and it was burned in already

Adam Zielinski posted:

999inmydreams666 posted:

Christopher_M posted:

What does your dealer say?

NORDOST RED DAWN is the only answer for him....and doesn’t even want to give naca5 a try

Given what you wrote about your 'dealer' it's high time you ditched him. What sort of a Naim dealer is that doesn't want to try NACA5????

Nordost speaker cables appear to have wrong specifications for the Naim amps. 

And a hearesy of not using DIN sockets for a Maim connection....

 

do they make rca to din? cause I am not using a naim source/dac

TOBYJUG posted:

Although saying that,  I would be very happy with a SN2 and a full Red Dawn Nordost Loom.  

I was almost convinced for the naca5......before of this statement aahahahahahah

guys dealer still says that with the old naims was important to respect the minimum 3,5 lenght ....but now I’d just need 2 meters each side and he say there will be no problems at all with breakin anything....I m gettin confused

Yes he's right with the SN2. The XS Naits and the all in one jobs. As you look further up the range, the design of the amps are more discerning and susceptible to not fulfilling their best potential if not used with the right speaker cables and lengths.  Gone are the days of anything blowing up....just the potential of being concerned when investing a large sum of money on something that doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

999inmydreams666 posted:

guys dealer still says that with the old naims was important to respect the minimum 3,5 lenght ....but now I’d just need 2 meters each side and he say there will be no problems at all with breakin anything....I m gettin confused

I would contact Naim directly with your concerns, and specifically with the type of speaker cables you are contemplating using at the address below. I believe they are better informed about what is healthy for the amp instead of your dealer, or personal feelings from members of the forum. I was told that Nordost cables are not recommended for Naim amps when I contacted them.

info@naimaudio.com

Also, this is directly from the SN2 owners manual:

1.2 Loudspeaker Cables

Loudspeaker cables are vitally important. They should each be at least 3.5 metres long and of equal length. The recommended maximum is normally 20 metres although longer cables may be viable with some Naim amplifiers.
Some Naim amplifiers are designed only to work with Naim loudspeaker cable and using alternatives may degrade the performance or even damage the amplifier. Other Naim amplifiers can be used with any high quality loudspeaker cable although we recommend that Naim loudspeaker cable is used. Naim loudspeaker cable is directional and should be oriented so that the printed arrow points towards the speakers. The Naim loudspeaker connectors supplied are designed to comply with European safety legislation and must be used.

4.3 Speaker Outputs

A set of stereo speaker connection sockets is provided on the rear panel. Custom Naim loudspeaker connectors are supplied to make the connection and in order to comply with current European safety regulations these should always be used. Naim speaker cable will provide the best
results, however, a wide range of speaker cable types can be used without risk of damage to the amplifier.

999inmydreams666 posted:

Christopher_M posted:

What does your dealer say?

NORDOST RED DAWN is the only answer for him....and doesn’t even want to give naca5 a try

He probably can't solder it.

RCA > DIN interconnects:

several manufacturers make them: Naim (HiLine and Superline), Chord

Naim supply a phono to din interconnect for £115, which is very high quality and what I’d go go. As for the Nordost, they cost £1,049 for a 3m pair, which is a lot to spend for something that may or may not be the best choice. Most here are advising you to choose A5. The dealer is refusing to supply it. You can either choose the advice of a dealer who seems clueless, or follow the advice of long term Naim owners who have spent their own money on getting the best from their systems. If the dealer really is that incompetent that they cannot make up a pair of A5 cables, based solely on what I’ve heard myself I’d suggest Tellurium Black, which come ready terminated and will not require the dealer to make any effort. 

Word of wisdom, words of wisdom from HH.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Word of wisdom, words of wisdom from HH.

As usual. No-one on this forum can put in so few words the best way to move ahead.

999inmydreams666 posted:

ChrisSU posted:

The burning question is....what source are you using? If the Supernait is an upgrade on whatever amp you had before, are your sources up to it, or is the better amp exposing their weakness? Is your gear set up properly (your dealer should help you with this?)  You mention RCA connections, which suggests that you probably have non-Naim sources - you should try to get cables that at least have DIN plugs on the amp end.

Regarding speaker cable, I would suggest getting NACA5 as you will then hear the amp the way it was designed to work. Once you're happy with the setup and everything is burned in, maybe try other cables for comparison.

source is a mac with flac files to a non naim dac and I’m happy with this with the sn2....I don’t find any weakenesses except for that thing I was wondering about speed. it’s a unique way to play music of course but this makes you answer....is all the rest  (consumer and mant hifi products) wrong as they seem to sound slower and we are used to that?

the dealer believes it’s useless to get rca-din cable if the source/dac is non naim.....!!!!

First the timing issue.

Naim amps are not artificially 'fast'.  In fact what they do with the design is to make the amp accurately respond to leading edges in transient signals.
Getting this accurate response whilst preserving both amplifier stability and fine detail in the signal is a hard thing to achieve, and most amp designs compromise the transient performance a little to make it easier to get unconditional stability. *

Taking the issue of the interconnect cable, I can confirm that, for any given cable quality using RCA -> DIN will give a superior sound. ^$

*  In the past I have designed audio amps, so I do know how difficult it is to achieve this.

*  This is also why NAC A5 (or an electrically comparable cable) is strongly recommended for use with Naim Amps.  True, with the integrated amps it's not actually essential, but the amps are designed to work best with the electrical characteristics of NAC A5.  Note also that Tellurium Q Black, DNM Resolution, and some other cables do have very similar electrical characteristics.

$  I still do build my own interconnect cables (mine are similar quality to a £500+ ready made cable but for a lot less cost, and I can fine tune the sound myself).

Moderated Post:  Huge, I've had to edit and remove reference to the name of someone who does not wish to have either their name or their products mentioned or discussed on this forum.

You are most kind. That's not the usual response I get to my posts! It's really disappointing when dealers push their own views to the extent that this one seems to be. What is the purchaser to do, particularly when they are new to Naim, or any other make come to that? One's natural instinct is trust the salesperson: unfortunately that's not always wise. Here in the U.K. we have some excellent dealers who stock a range of brands and know their stuff, but it seems that the situation is not the same everywhere. Conversely, how does someone new to the Forum judge whose opinions - for they are only ever opinions - they can trust? 

Is there anyway to get naca5 already factory soldered?

No. 

999inmydreams666 posted:

Is there anyway to get naca5 already factory soldered?

Naim supply their speaker plugs with their amps, and dealers should be able to solder them for you. 

I'm still curious about the mystery source here. A properly optimised Mac with a good DAC can sound great, but poorly implemented, I've heard them sound pretty poor. Without the full picture, we could all be barking up the wrong tree.