Would I benefit from a NAP 100?

Hungryhalibut posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Max_B posted:

My suggestion: before you add a caravan that costs more than the car that pulls it, listen carefully, and without biases, to an Atom.

You may discover that the swap/trade could make you spare one box and some money.

Best,

Max

Max, unless I'm much mistaken the NAP 100 new costs £750. Atom is £1,750. Trade in on a Qute2 likely to be around the £1,000 mark. 

Whichever route is taken, cost likely to almost same (unless buying NAP 100 s/h, in which case that becomes the cheaper option). I suppose there is the question of extra cabling, but that doesn't have to be silly money to sound good?

I saw a Qute for sale very recently for £500, which is much nearer to the likely trade in value. 

If a genuine Qute 2 in 'as new' condition I'd be very tempted to buy and immediately sell on and make myself a very easy £250-£300 minimum for very little effort. Check out recent sales on the auction website if in doubt.

analogmusic posted:

Flashback standard cable and Flashback performance cable.

It is for my turntable, but it seems the Naim Standard RCA to DIN, and also Chord Chrysalis work their magic on pretty much any source (Naim or not ) that I tried them on.

I don't know lately what's really going on in this forum, why is it that saying that Naim cables sound best with Naim amplifiers  (including SuperLumina), is now open to such debate and challenge?

As a neutral observer of this particular debate, it strikes me there's a lot of intransigence on display. Surely the answer is we all have our own opinions based upon (in most cases) what we hear. Those who haven't first hand experience but are relying solely upon the opinion of reviews or other contributors may find it pays to keep their own counsel. Love my Naim gear as I do, Naim is not the centre of the universe.

analogmusic posted:

I don't know lately what's really going on in this forum, why is it that saying that Naim cables sound best with Naim amplifiers  (including SuperLumina), is now open to such debate and challenge?

Reason I got into Naim years ago was the no fuss approach to cables, NACA4 / A5, mains cables and the lavender cables thrown in the box were enough. Naim approach then was that these cables are more than adequate for the job from the humble Nait to their flagship and no need to look further.

Now all of a sudden expensive cables have appeared onto the market and Naim have joined in with price tags into the thousands and from my observation everything else before is broken.

Time to duck

Well there is what we hear, and then what we want to hear.

Of course there are no absolutes since Hi-fi is a reproduction of a recording.

I can only share what I heard, I've got cables from Chord cables, Vertere, and Naim, and hear them all very carefully, and I would say that one just cannot go wrong with Naim cables as they make the kit, and know exactly what they are doing. It is Naim who helped to found Chord cables after all, and helped them make the very first Chord Chrysalis, which Chord admit, influenced every single cable they make till today.

If one values the Naim intended performance, it's very difficult to beat Naim cables in a Naim context. These are just 2 words "Naim context" but they carry great significance (to my ears at least).

But if one wants to change the performance, then it is a personal taste, but it's just that. hey ho, ho hum, whatever floats anyone's boat, who cares?

But its' very difficult using Non Naim cables to get the Naim intended performance which has been fine tuned with thousands of hours of careful listening in Salisbury by a group of very experienced Naim engineers.

Hi-Fi Man, to my ears the original lavenders and Hi-Line still do a very, very good job.

"I don't know lately what's really going on in this forum, why is it that saying that Naim cables sound best with Naim amplifiers  (including SuperLumina), is now open to such debate and challenge", perhaps because it is only an opinion and not holy scripture.  We all hear things differently and are perhaps all looking for a slightly different sound so whilst this may be true for some for others it isn't.  I have to say though I do find it amusing that so many stated there was no need for anything other than naca and the old Naim interconnects and then immediately jumped ship when Naim brought out cables of their own with eye watering prices.  Like everything else, it's a matter of taste and not worth getting heated about.

well the SL cables are really intended for Statement.... before statement there was no SL.

No Naim staff or employee has ever said that the lavender interconnect or NACA 5 now sounds broken.

analogmusic posted:

I don't know lately what's really going on in this forum, why is it that saying that Naim cables sound best with Naim amplifiers  (including SuperLumina), is now open to such debate and challenge?

“Sound best” is down to a matter of taste. People are probably challenging the notion that buying a Naim interconnects is the only option.

 I’ve not read all your posts on this forum, but I’d say you spend a lot of your time telling everybody that Chord and Vertere interconnects sound better than Naim interconnects.

Flashback make decent cables. I use them when i need a cable to do a specific job (connection and length) and they always deliver a cable well made and quickly. The standard cable compares nicely to the lavender (which at £108 now is well over priced for what it is). If i needed a Lavender cable and couldn't find one second hand then i'd have no issues in using Flashback. 

fatcat posted:

analogmusic posted:

I don't know lately what's really going on in this forum, why is it that saying that Naim cables sound best with Naim amplifiers  (including SuperLumina), is now open to such debate and challenge?

“Sound best” is down to a matter of taste. People are probably challenging the notion that buying a Naim interconnects is the only option.

 I’ve not read all your posts on this forum, but I’d say you spend a lot of your time telling everybody that Chord and Vertere interconnects sound better than Naim interconnects.

That's a bit of misquoting me.

Each cable does a different job, so it is not possible to generalize like this. Even the still amazing Hi-line was found not suitable for DIN/XLR duties for NAP 250/300/500 by Naim themselves.

In the DIN/XLR cable for NAP 250, it appears to me the Vertere version of this cable seems to do a better job than the standard cable, but the issue is that hi-end cables take a very long time to run in, and then it does take some very careful A/B to listen to if the Naim sound (in terms of timing/emotion/engagement) got compromised.

Anyway indeed the SL one does do a very good job (once run in, which takes a very long time)

It isn't easy to all to judge..... and I'm honestly exhausted and fed up of all this cable swapping hence now in hindsight I wish I had just bought all Naim cables.

The Chord Tuned aray cable do something else (which is very pleasing and engaging in terms of almost completely disappearing from the system - this is no small achievement, by the way) and the Vertere cables do indeed sound very different and engaging (full of musical energy like a live performance), and the Naim lavender does something else, it has a massive window on the midrange which is very pleasing and makes it easier to hear those Rhythms, and is a very musical and fun cable.

There is this big issue of price. The SL Din/XLR is 1,629 GBP but Chord sell a big range of DIN/XLR cables, and the vertere DFI cable entry level is very reasonably priced also.

And then for my Chord Mojo 3.5mm to DIN cable, As I am aware, not sure if Naim make such a cable, but Chord do in their clearway range, and it's less than 100 GBP, so you can see why I got a mix of cables in my systems due to price, affordability and availability.

The reason I love the Naim cables, well they just allow the boogie in the music to come through... I guess you could say that about Chord and vertere, but it's the degree of boogie which is clearly evident in Naim cables 

My contribution to this topic: 1. For me, Nap 100 was worthwhile for UQ2. 2. Nap200 with UQ2 sounded worse to me, as in it's a bad match (imo). 3. Flashbacksales are a great option, especially on a budget, and sound very similar to Naim's own 

Again, all of this imo, in my room and system.

The "Degree of boogie"

That would be some book title to beat

Here' my input:

I have owned a Nap 100 in the past, and UQ2 for some time (it's still a very important part of my system but used as a digital source these days).  I recently sold the Nap 100 to make way for some older chrome bumper amplification as my system 'matured', but, in short, I loved the Nap 100 and it was a great addition to the UQ2.  I like to listen to music loud, and whilst the UQ2 alone is excellent, the Nap 100 just adds the extra control and grip required to attain unsociable volume levels (without distortion of course). 

For the money it's a mega little amplifier, I would thoroughly recommend one.  With SBL's it worked a treat.  I compared to several other 'bigger brother' Naim amps at the time, and there was not a great deal in it once you discount the added detail and further separation provided by the big boys.  I can't really give it any more praise than that! Perhaps not the very last level in terms of detail but a thoroughly enjoyable listen. 

PS:  I can't really comment on the use of other manufacturers cables, but generally I recommend (as would Naim) that you stick to using their interconnecting cables as they are specifically designed for these systems and i've always found that they work very well.  Don't mess with perfection as they say