Uniti price hike

If I had been waiting for an Atom/Nova etc and then found the price had jumped, I'd initially be pretty fed up and probably kick myself that I'd not already placed my order.  Oh, hang on, this is what happened to me with a Canon lens I'd had my eye on for some time, only to find Canon had upped the price by over 20% as a result of the increase in value of the yen (another side effect of brexit-induced turmoil.)  I was heavily invested in the Canon system so alternative lenses were not a realistic possibility.  After thinking hard whether I really needed that lens, I eventually decided to hold on to my money.  Naim don't have a monopoly on one-box hifi systems and most potential purchasers will not be tied in to the Naim system so, having let off some steam, might be better looking for alternatives.  If they find a cheaper alternative which sounds as good as the Naim box, they should go out and buy and enjoy it.  If not, the Naim box is still good value at the increased price.

One thing that puzzles me is that most posters on this forum seem to be on the political right which, at least according to the PM and chancellor is in favour of free markets, but then complain at the operation of the market.  I don't see evidence of abuse of market power in the HiFi industry so competition will mean that Naim may lose some sales of Unitis as a result of the price hike, but will no doubt be hoping that total revenue will increase.  Sorry for the ECON101, but that's how markets work.  If Naim really wanted to exploit their customer base, they would probably do better to whack up the prices of classic boxes since there are far fewer substitutes for someone on the upgrade ladder than for all-in-one boxes.

Roger

Peakman posted:

.....   If Naim really wanted to exploit their customer base, they would probably do better to whack up the prices of classic boxes since there are far fewer substitutes for someone on the upgrade ladder than for all-in-one boxes.

Roger

You're probably right, but I doubt the Classic boxes are sold in sufficient volumes to make a significant difference. I'm guessing the Atom will be the one which appeals most to the Millenium generation and will achieve significant sales, regardless of the price hike.

YiannisK posted:

Just out of curiosity, when are these price increases happening in the UK? I just checked online and can see that all uniti prices are still listed at the pre-increase levels.

Cheers

2 October. 

FYI, the Focal range have had another raise too, ~15%. It's probably not Naim to 'blame' in that case, it looks like Focal have increased prices across the board. 

Richard Dane posted:

From what I understand the original BOM and hence retail price was calculated, rather unfortunately, just before sterling fell off a cliff........................ Yes, it's a tough pill to swallow for some and I can understand some of the anger and frustration. But the way I see it,Naim couldn't keep swallowing the difference forever,

{ - particularly with such strong demand for the products.}

It must have been a really tough call for Trevor to make but an inevitable one when you consider all the facts. 

Repeat Strong Demand For The Products!

Going out on a limb, but I would imagine, Focal sees the 272 & the Uniti Star as Naim's Bread & Butter!

"February 2015

News

Naim Audio

The best of both worlds

Introducing the latest addition to our core range of separates: the NAC-N 272 streaming preamplifier. 

The 272 combines some of the best Naim Audio innovations in digital audio technology with traditional analogue engineering. It has taken the combined expertise of our award-winning team of engineers to bring these two worlds together and create a compelling Naim Audio sound. 

The best of both worlds

The 272 is a high-quality Naim Audio preamplifier. Its fundamental electronic design is inspired by the NAC 552 preamplifier and its volume control is derived from the flagship Statement NAC S1 preamplifier. "

"28 September 2017

News

Naim Audio

Experience Uniti Star In-Store Today!

We are delighted to announce that the final player in the range, the Uniti Star all-in-one player has been released and is now available to buy from your local specialist retailer."

Streamline & Downsize the Company, Introduce new products catered towards the Millennials, pacify the Baby Boomers!

Sounds like a Sound Business Plan.

Sign of the times.

Allante93!

PS. Focal/Naim

dave-mac posted:

FYI, the Focal range have had another raise too, ~15%. It's probably not Naim to 'blame' in that case, it looks like Focal have increased prices across the board. 

Note that both Naim and Focal are now majority owned by a Finance company, Naxicap. The management team of both Focal and Naim have stakes but the ultimate say, especially when it comes to return on investment, is out of Naim’s hands I would *cough* venture...

And in support of Trevor’s statement (Dr. Trevor if you like!) he states in the 2015 accounts that the biggest risks to Naim were political instability and currency fluctuations - since Brexit we have both.

Reading Allante93's posts reminds me of the first time I attempted to read Ulysses! Is it just me, or does anyone else feel a stream of consciousness thing going on here?

Timmo1341 posted:

Reading Allante93's posts reminds me of the first time I attempted to read Ulysses! Is it just me, or does anyone else feel a stream of consciousness thing going on here?

Can't fault his enthusiasm for the brand

I’m pretty sure it was a Tom Peters seminar that taught me to treasure mavericks, as they’ll do things for you that no-one else has thought of. Or something. Worked for me (though they can be high maintenance)

I think the forum would be a poorer, less interesting place without him, but I'm not quite sure I always get where he's coming from (or going!).

dave-mac posted:

FYI, the Focal range have had another raise too, ~15%. It's probably not Naim to 'blame' in that case, it looks like Focal have increased prices across the board. 

Good job I bought my Sopras back in the summer then. If you want to feel really, really fleeced try commuting to London for a few years with those price hikes including an annual car park season ticket which went up over 300 quid in 3 years. Now that really is a rip off which is one of the reasons I no longer commute.Give the guys a chance - Brexit isn’t the Boris wonderland he promised and an even bigger mess waits just around the corner. Would you be a British manufacturer in the current climate?

Won’t hear a bad word said about our Trev by the way

Timmo1341 posted:

I think the forum would be a poorer, less interesting place without him, but I'm not quite sure I always get where he's coming from (or going!).

Thanks Guys, that really made me feel good, the fact that someone is actually paying attention to the words that roll out of my mouth! 

But I was merely pigging back off Mr. Richard Dane. 

Remember back in High School, The Supply and Demand Curve. 

As the Demand goes up, the price goes up. Directly related! 

Mr. Richard Dane was mentioning the strong demand for the products, That's all! 

Gary shaw nailed it: 

"Note that both Naim and Focal are now majority owned by a Finance company, Naxicap. The management team of both Focal and Naim have stakes but the ultimate say, especially when it comes to return on investment, is out of Naim’s hands I would *cough* venture..."

Thanks Gary! Mavericks Wow! 

After All its not Naim/Focal!

Downsize and Streamline:

Ovators, CD 555, XS line. 

New products that cater to the Millennials, Unite Star, Atom, and the Popular Digital Pre Amp, the 272.

Focal/Naim or who ever is merely doing what's necessary to be competitive in todays Market Place! 

Once Again Thanks! 

A swell bunch you are! 

Enjoy your Music, The Why! 

Allante93! 

PS. Naim has a strong line of Amps ranging from: 

S1> SN 2>Nap 100  more than enough to pacify us Baby Boomers! 

552. 282, 272 Solid choices, right down to the Nap 100. 

After All, Where would Naim be without its Amps! 

Always enjoy your postings Allante as Timmo says the Forum would be a poorer place with out your unique angle on things.

Wishing you a good day

Allante93 posted:

As the Demand goes up, the price goes up. Directly related! 

 

I think you'll find the relationship between price and demand is an inverse curve; demand falls as price increases.

All of this means very little when as one forum member eloquently put early on in the thread you have been saving up for the past year tom buy a Nova and you walk in to your dealers to be told sorry mate that will be another 3 months saving for you.

well the new Uniti range was announced quite while ago, what stopped anyone from ordering it?

Anyone who really, really wanted one, got theirs by now

I know funds are an issue (they are for me too), but the atom at the old price (let's be honest here) was quite a deal.

Clive B posted:

Allante93 posted:

As the Demand goes up, the price goes up. Directly related! 

 

I think you'll find the relationship between price and demand is an inverse curve; demand falls as price increases.

This is where elasticity of demand comes in. House prices are only high because there is a supply shortage and high demand. So prices rise. But they can only go so far. Once they get too high and become unaffordable, demand falls and prices drop. So it's not an inverse curve. 

My dealer, who is an audio dealer so no one I would buy a used car from, still can hear, and knows what he hears although he likes to play naif and occasionally pronounce well pondered bull**it about some piece of equipment.

He has ordered both Nova and Star, has listened to them and says they sound very very good. I have heard the Core/Atom more than once and find it widely better than the Serve/Qute it replaces. The app seems to work well.

Yet, on this forum the average attitude towards the new Uniti series seems to oscillate between diffidence and tolerance, like if they were excessively costly relatives of the MU-SO. I am not discussing their pricing here (although people here has always bought the sound and not the inherent value, since Naim itself admits that usually the costliest part of their gear is the aluminum case) but simply wondering why when the Qute came out it was cuddled and loved like a puppy and everyone was buying one, now comes out something that is the same thing only much more beautiful and better sounding and I see, metaphorically speaking, noses twist. Often without any audition. I, at least, have heard one.

So far, for what I have read, not many here have heard much from the new Uniti series, but words are wasted about it. If the NAP552 (the second most idolized item after the 272/250DR combo) underwent a price rise, folks here would say 'well, its the greatest pre in the world, so ah, you want the best, you pay a lot of money...'; but the Uniti range is being thumb-downed even before it's heard.

I am not entitled to comment about UK's economics or politics, but BREXIT seems to have put a lot of people in distress and a lot of brains in panne.

I don't think the Uniti range is in any way being 'thumbed down'.  I've heard the Atom and the Nova and they are really super. What is irking people is that the prices have risen very significantly so soon after launch. A sudden jump of nearly 10%, £400, is a lot of extra money to find when one was planning to purchase a Nova at the old price. It may be entirely justifiable, but that doesn't make it any less palatable. The 272, 250 and 552 have nothing to do with it. 

Clive B posted:

Allante93 posted:

As the Demand goes up, the price goes up. Directly related! 

 

I think you'll find the relationship between price and demand is an inverse curve; demand falls as price increases.

The key concept here is price elasticity, I think.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I don't think the Uniti range is in any way being 'thumbed down'.  I've heard the Atom and the Nova and they are really super. What is irking people is that the prices have risen very significantly so soon after launch. A sudden jump of nearly 10%, £400, is a lot of extra money to find when one was planning to purchase a Nova at the old price. It may be entirely justifiable, but that doesn't make it any less palatable. The 272, 250 and 552 have nothing to do with it. 

Less should, of course, be more, but I missed the editing window. 

I have to say, if I was running a premium-branded niche technology business and my marketing people came to me with a pricing proposal that was calculated "cost plus" I'd be looking for better marketing people. These kind of products should be priced on perceived value - the marketing challenge is to understand what that is and how it can be enhanced.

That's a long way of saying I suspect that the price increases are significantly based on what demand for them has told Naim about the perceived value. If so then they are to be congratulated on developing very desirable products. 

if any one here doesn't see value at the price then there are some excellent alternatives - particular second hand Naim kit! Have to say that £2k for a Star versus £2k for a spotless used SU would be a tricky sell to me.

As an aside I think Richards claim that margins are pretty constant up and down the range is easily misunderstood. There are all differents sorts of "margin" and definitions are important.

If we are talking gross margin or contribution margin (price less variable cost of mf) then I don't believe the claim for a moment. The extra content as you move up the hierarchy cannot support that. Just an extreme example but consider Super lumina versus NACA 5 - there is simply no way that the materials and labour can take an equal share of the selling price.

So it must include some allocation of development costs and overheads to the product (a much bigger lump for the high end products which sell in smaller numbers). But as soon as you start allocating costs you involve a lot of subjective judgments and can deliver any kind of net margin or pretax margin that you want.

But all of that is irrelevant really - niche, premium branded products should be priced based on value not cost.

The right price (from a business perspective) at every point in the range is the one that makes the buyer wince as he hands over the credit card but look back 5 years later with the satisfaction that it was a good investment.

All these online FoC business consultants adding to the general gaiety of the Naim tea room I'd imagine  :-)

Christopher_M posted:

All these online FoC business consultants adding to the general gaiety of the Naim tea room I'd imagine  :-)

But he is right