Naim atom subwoofer

I’ve looked this sub up and the issue seems to be that it only has line level connections, so you are stuck with connecting it to the Atom in the way you are at the moment. Integrating subs can be a bit tricky. If I were you I’d take the sub back for a refund. Stick with your speakers and save up for something better. The only time I’ve heard the Atom it was driving Focal Sopra 1s. While I didn’t think much of the Focals it showed that the Atom is capable of driving some pretty good speakers. If you want to stay with something small, the ProAc Tablette 10 at £1000 might fit the bill. If you are happy to go bigger, there are lots to choose from. 

Or you could try connecting it up to the back of you speakers via a High to low output adapter these are designed for car audio and though not ideal do offer a solution. 

You can then take any cheap speaker wire from your speakers connect them to the adapter and then connect the rca cables from there to the sub.

I have a similar problem and attempted to connect the speakers direct to my sub which worked but was far to loud being Hi level speaker to low level rca, so I am now waiting for adapter to arrive today hopefully so I will post later as to how good or bad a solution it is.

I did think of that but didn’t mention it as it’s not the ‘right’ way to go about things. Adding £30 adaptors designed for car audio into expensive hifi systems seems somehow wrong to me. That’s not to say it won’t work, it just seems wrong. It will be interesting to see how you get on with it. 

Thank you both, thats a big help. Ive combined your bits of advice and will look to return the sub pending how your experiment with the car audio adaptor goes.

Your dealer should be happy to work with you on this. Look at the cost of adding the sub, and see if you can find better speakers for the extra cost, and you might find this is a better solution to giving you more bass extension and easier setup. If you do decide to stick with a sub, one with a high level input which connects to the terminals at the back of your speakers might be a better solution, but either way, be prepared to experiment extensively with room layout, speaker positioning and sub positioning, all of which can have a big effect on bass performance.

JAG posted:

 

I didnt think the sub sounded very good so I asked naim support who said the preamp outs are not designed for subwoofers but can do the job to some extent.

 

I'd be interested to know who in Naim support is peddling this line because it is absolute bollocks!

This directly copied from the Naim  web site Atom section:

"Upgradeable Performance

In true Naim style, the new Uniti Atom can be upgraded with one of our external power amplifiers, such as the compact NAP 100. You can also add a subwoofer for deeper bass extension. "

The specifications describe the outputs as:

"Audio Outputs
1 x Stereo power amplifier
1 x RCA sub/pre output
1 x 3.5mm headphone jack "

I also speak from experience in that I have used a sub with both a Superuniti and my new Nova to great effect. All you need is a sub with line level inputs (although high level speaker connections can be made - a job for your dealer probably). Subs can work well and there are many threads on this on the forum.

Naim seem to have a real problem with support for the Uniti range - for example the online so called support section (which is supposed to replace a proper manual) is riddled with errors and has pages duplicated and pages missing in the Nova quick start guide. I reported this over a week ago but nothing has been done!

Hmm, in that case there is nothing to be gained by taking a high level output from the speakers and using an adapter. Maybe it’s simply a case of the speakers and sub not being good enough. As I said before I’d take the sub  back and save up for some better speakers. 

JAG posted:

<snip>

I didnt think the sub sounded very good so I asked naim support who said the preamp outs are not designed for subwoofers but can do the job to some extent.

Does anyone know of a more 'made for purpose' way to get the subwoofer connected, preferably one which doesnt further cripple my finances ?
<snip>

I connect a sub to the pre out RCA connections at the back of my 272.  As Pev says thus is how the designers intend you to connect a sub.

You say "I didnt think the sub sounded very good", but don't say why.  You also haven't said how you configured the crossover (frequency and level) or given any indication of the room dimensions (these are critical to the correct operation of a sub).

Hello Pev,

Thank you for your reply.

Originally I asked naim support how I would go about connecting a subwoofer to the atom - personally, as a novice, it would have been useful to have a manual i agree.

It took a fair old while to get a response - so long infact that i ended up buying the sub off the back of the naim website information you quoted.

Their eventual response was:

'The Atom has a Pre-amp connection in the back, while this is not designated as a Sub-Woofer connection you should still be able to plug a Sub-Woofer in without risk of overloading it. If you were to use a separate amplifier, it would be dependant on the connections available in that amplifier.'

Anyway, the 'should still be able to' didn't fill me confidence that it was a made for purpose connection and the fact my sub doesn't sound particularly 'true' hasn't helped my state of mind.

So in summary, do you think the best course of action is to speak to my retailer about making a high level speaker connection? Is there a thread/page you're aware of that i could read to understand exactly what i'll be asking them for?

Thanks

I also forgot to ask about placement.

If you place a sub in the corner of the room it will very often encourage 'bass boom' or a 'one note' bass type of sound signature.

Hi Huge

I followed an online guide for the sub placement for small speakers. I also set the cross over to what was recommended by Dali when pairing it with Zensor 1's. (both sub and speakers from same family)

Room is about 3.5m x 3.7m

The bass seems to be extremely loud compared to the speakers (i need to keep the sub volume dial almost to zero when guides say that it should be on around half-way) and not particularly true to the sounds it's trying to reproduce.

Bare in mind i play the drums, so I am not exactly concerned about loud noises and booming bass.

I'm happy to accept that I need to play more with the positioning. It's just after Naims response that I thought I might have got something technically wrong or that there may be a better way to connect them to the atom. i.e. these high level speaker connections.

its in the corner!

Hi JAG,

No there's nothing technically wrong, with the connection (Naim only use the phrase "you should still be able to plug a Sub-Woofer in without risk of overloading it" to cover themselves as some subs don't have an appropriate connection to be used this way).

Corner placement is typical for home cinema use where you want exaggerated extreme low frequency effects from the LFE (low frequency effects!) channel.  For music  placement half way along a wall is usually a better placement.  If you place a sub in the corner of the room it will very often encourage 'bass boom' or a 'one note' bass type of sound signature with music.  The sub should also be closer to your listening position than are the main speakers to compensate for the delay in the sub's crossover filter and amplifier.  These points are particularly the case for subs using a ported enclosure (as yours has). 

In any given room (except an anechoic chamber!), the crossover position can't just be set to a 'theoretically correct' position related to the bass response of the main speakers, as that varies dependant on the room in which they are operating.  This is why I made the point about room dimensions.  If you supply them, and the locations of your speakers (mains and sub) and listening position within the room, I may be able to suggest a better crossover point (and a way to set the frequency accurately using a smart phone).

The ideal tool to set the up the crossover is REW with a calibrated mike (such as the miniDSP UMIK-1), but this costs money (about £90 for the UMIK-1).  The advantage is that it can then be used to load a more accurate crossover profile into a miniDSP 2x4 to do the crossover to the sub.  Another option is the AntiMode 8033S mk2, this does the bass alignment of a sub automatically, but is more expensive.

You may also need to use bass traps to achieve really good bass, but this is heavily room dependent (again REW with a calibrated mike will show you whether this is needed).

Hi Jag,

there should be absolutely no problem using a standard RCA cable to connect your sub - to confirm this look at the extracts I quoted above taken from the Naim web site. As Huge says, any sub with a line level input would be fine and there is also an FAQ on this Forum written by a moderator on how to connect using speaker (high) level cables:    https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ofer  That's how routine and OK it is to connect a sub!!

I don't know anything about the sub you have - I use a Velodyne which comes with setup software, remote control,  and a microphone to get an ideal sound at the listening position. It has a real time graph of frequency response you can view on your TV screen. I'm sure some other subs offer similar facilities. Huge is an expert on setting up subs using DSP software as he outlines in his post above - listen to him not the muppet who responded from Naim.

First stage would be ask your dealer to try and set up the sub you have for you - if they can't get it working to your satisfaction they should take it back!

Pev posted:

<snip> Huge is an expert on setting up subs using DSP software <snip>

An 'ex' is a has been, a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure!  

Well looks like i came to the right place to get advice!

Thanks HUGE that's great  - I will look to upload a plan of my layout, room dimensions and listening positioning etc and research some of the terms and products you've mentioned.

From what you've said i'm fairly certain that i've ended up following a guide that's geared more at the earth-shattering home cinema subwoofer market.

Thank you too Pev, unfortunately i bought it online and therefore picked up all the install side of it myself. So i end up here pestering you for pointers!

JAG posted:

Hello there. Im making various expensive mistakes so decided i could use some advice.

I bought an atom and dali zensor 1s. I then decided they were light on bass so bought a matching dali e9f subwoofer.

I didnt think the sub sounded very good  

Make sure not to set crossover and volume/gain level very high

In fact set it very very low and move your way up until you can define where the sub is placed with eyes closed

Sorry if you can't return the sub, there's much better out there for similar cash or even cheaper, I use BK 400/12" sub and its available similar priced on the bay along with many other alternatives from BK, all hand-made in UK

I have just connected up the adapter and the sub sounds identical in fact I would say slightly better than when I had it connected up to the HiCap and then the 3rd party psu I now own.  Previously I had the same sub connected directly to sub out on a unitiqute and then 122x and it sounds much better (as it should) today going through this adapter.

I initially suggested this to the OP as he stated he was tired of making expensive mistakes and to be fair it is only a temporary solution for me until I can aquire a different sub with traditional speaker inputs.

I must add that as suggested above there should be no problem connecting the sub up the way you initially did  I have connected subs to pre outs and even tape outs with great success but then again Im a neanderthal who connects £30 adapters meant for car audio up to £12,000 pounds worth of amplifier must be my Irish & Romany ancestry! 

I found quite the opposite, that my sub sounded best from a low level connection.  This was the case for both the Wharfedale SW150 and also for the B&W ASW610XP.

Maybe because I have positionally 'time aligned' my sub, so I don't want to add another group delay.  Maybe it was because I was able to use short low level cables to the sub.  Using the low level connection also allowed me to use a DSP to accurately match my sub's response to the room.

Huge posted:

Pev posted:

<snip> Huge is an expert on setting up subs using DSP software <snip>

An 'ex' is a has been, a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure!  

Or, alternatively, "X is an unknown quantity, spurt is a drip under pressure"!

On a more serious note, unless Naim rolls off the low frequencies from the pre outs (assuming it will be used in a system with speakers that don't have much low frequency power handling capabilities), there is absolutely no reason an active sub with line inputs shouldn't work.  Can't think of any good reason they would do this, though

JAG posted:

Hello there. Im making various expensive mistakes so decided i could use some advice.

I bought an atom and dali zensor 1s. I then decided they were light on bass so bought a matching dali e9f subwoofer.

I didnt think the sub sounded very good so I asked naim support who said the preamp outs are not designed for subwoofers but can do the job to some extent.

Does anyone know of a more 'made for purpose' way to get the subwoofer connected, preferably one which doesnt further cripple my finances ?

Thank you in advance for any tips

Get a REL and use the high level input.