New 180g or original pressing

Hi Clive,

Tricky question. In general I find that any record made in the analogue era say up until early 80's you are probably better off trying to source a used copy. A lot of the reissue 180 gram or whatever are produced from a high res digital file. Some can sound pretty good but some not so good.

Cost also comes into the equation as some original pressings are rare and expensive and a new 180 g re issue can be a reasonable compromise. Also condition of original vinyl varies also and nobody wants to listen to a beat up crackly copy.

If you decide to go down the used original copy route and intend to buy lots of vinyl a record cleaning machine may become a useful thing to have. If you just want to dip your toe in so to speak then there are places that will clean records for you charging per record.

Enjoy your foray into vinyl

Prem.

Thanks Prem

Sound advice. Just neef to find a way of sorting the dross from new releases I guess....

Clive 

I believe Analogue Productions from Acusticsounds.com goes to the original tapes plus they bought a factory on Kansas and re-engineered the cutting and pressing machines feeling that all of that made sense for perfection. Of course the price reflects that.  Get on their website for the best info.  I have numerous ones of their recordings but only buy what I know I'm really going to like.  Tho they don't release second rate music.

I don't know when, or how, the studios started going digital, and these days why buy it when the music was recorded digital then transferred to vinyl.  Years back CDs had the AAD notation.  I know that Shelby Lynne's  'Just a Little Lovin' was recorded at Capitol all analogue from an interview with Tavis Smiley. She said  they were doing the usual digital and felt it was not right, didn't have the warmth so they started again with band and her singing at the same time, not layered.  Phil Ramone was producer on the credits. and she said it probably drove some of the engineers crazy but she got the beautiful sound she was after.  Said she loves to have parties where everbody brings records , smoke some pot, drink and play music, that doesn't happen with CDs.  It was the always the big vinyl thing with her and she was lucky to have a producer let her do that.

I do know that equipment with tubes makes a big difference in warmth, my Herron amps and Palmer TT plus the SLH5 speakers has really impressed a few people who have been able to hear it.  She just sounds so lush and intimate.  I played it 2 times lately for friends, one a DJ in the past, he'd never heard anything like it.  He cleaned Billy Idol's long version of White Wedding  and  he heard things that the dance clubs couldn't  produce.  It was very interesting to hear the difference  in digital and synths, exciting song but rather sterile, tho his voice was great.

Best place for in depth (occassionally anally retentive) discussion and analysis of reissue quality is the Steve Hoffman forum. 

Use the search function in the Music Corner and be prepared to spend some time. Obviously more popular, mainstream artists are discussed in almost too much depth and there can be alot of noise. But still a valuable resource.

Mostly original pressings are much better than the reissues, especially from the pré digital aera. But records from the nineteenth are often bad and the quality of the vinyl is poor (Not always ). And the weight of the record is no quality-sign, it is only a marketing gag. If you search for s/h, i found that if cover and inner sleeve are in a very good (mint) condition, the record is also very good. And it is very much fun to search for used records! Originals from supergroups are very, very expensive (search for Beatles, butcher cover ), also good records from the nineteenth because of the limited editions. It is difficult to find out what is good and affordable, but it is fun!

"Original pressing" is somewhat of a subjective claim and should be distinguished from "re-issues" of the same era. By and large I prefer an actual OP to re-issued or later re-mastered vinyl. Just be certain you do your homework with regard to the matrix numbers and obtain a true OP for best SQ - not a vintage re-issued LP.

I see the weight of the vinyl meaningless with regard to SQ. In fact, I find 180-g (or greater weight) to be a marketing scheme that bears no relevance to the pressing or sound quality. Plenty of 120-140-g original pressings I own out perform their modern-day heavy-weight re-issues.

Think about the steps involved in taking aged tapes, digitizing them, remastering them, then pressing them in modern vinyl facilities versus the immediate, direct process to produce LPs when it was routine by experienced technicians back in the day. The OPs make more sense to me if you want to get to the truest, most direct, from the source, message of the sound.

Always the original for me....Discogs is a good source. 

Modern re-issues: if you have a good streamer you may be better off getting a high-res download as opposed to a re-issue vinyl. Unless of course it is to complete a collection

Streaming is something I wont be concidering in this lifetime.

Fair enough

So: original versions first. Discogs is your friend.

Re-issues if you cannot find an original.

For vinyl, I look for the labels e.g. Music on Vinyl, which have track record with re-mastering and good quality production. 

I concur that many of the latest 180gs (even 200s) are simply re-issues as a marketing gig. I often investigate the label via internet search and/or use mags as a filter.  

Of late, some re-issues have prices for single remastered LPs >£50. This is too much for me. I'll only splash this on a very special item e.g. MFSL release. 

Not much to add to the replies above. Personal I would always go for a 1st press or as near as funds allow. However that can become very very expensive with the big names! Beatles, Stones , Pink Floyd, 60s British Blues anything from Blue Note from the 1950s & 60s being eye wateringly expensive. However, there are some excellent all AAA reissue to be had Music Matters have just finished reissuing  some of the classic Blue Note era recordings both on 33 & 45 rpm have a look at there web site if you are at all interested in jazz. Also Pure Pleasue Records are excellent and reasonably priced again have a look at there site and unlike Music  Matters based in the UK. I would also suggest that you invest in a good RCM if you intend to buy a lot of SH vinyl.

ATB Graham.

If you can get an original 1st, 2nd or even 3rd or 4th press as long as it contemporary with the original release date they are always preferable discos is pretty good for these . Usually copies pressed in the country of origin are better but of course there are always exceptions and so far as the weight issue 180 gram is never an indicator of a quality pressing I have records from the 80's pressed on very flimsy vinyl that sound better than recent 180 gm re issues.

Music on Vinyl although decent enough are usually pressed using digital masters so if you still own a CD then I would say the cheaper CD's are equal to these, lots and lots of old music that has passed out of copyright are pressed from CD's by companies such as DOL avoid these like the plague they always display the 180 gm Heavy Wieght vinyl sticker but are terrible quality.

As mentioned above if an original press is priced at silly money then there are are excellent modern re issue specialists such as Analogue Productions, Pure Pleasure, Speakers Corner etc these are usually priced between £25-30 and are usually worth the extra but if you spend a little more for 'special' releases that are special to you then Mobile Fidelity can usually be relied upon as can Original Recordings Group and Classic Records but the label that I have found the best have been Music Matters that did the Blue Note anniversary releases excellent and the cheaper 33rpm copies Ive found better than the 45rpm double lp releases.

Vinyl collecting can be very, very rewarding if you are careful and patient it's all to easy to rush buy when you are starting out because you want that release in your collection but unless you can verify modern reissues always try and find and original but if they are to pricey look for one of the above reissue specialists.

Some original pressings were on heavy weight vinyl. Back in the 60s there was a shop in Berwick St, Soho called Musicland. This used sell imported records from America.  Apart from getting a lot of very desirable records a few weeks before they were released in the UK there were always much thicker than UK releases and definitely sounded better. This was evident even on the very basic Garrard SP25/Rotel/Wharfedale level systems that were the norm in my circles back then.

They were significantly more expensive but very desirable and had a large following, certainly in SE London where I was at the time, An american import record had a lot of kudos in those days.

Pev posted:

Some original pressings were on heavy weight vinyl. Back in the 60s there was a shop in Berwick St, Soho called Musicland. This used sell imported records from America.  Apart from getting a lot of very desirable records a few weeks before they were released in the UK there were always much thicker than UK releases and definitely sounded better. This was evident even on the very basic Garrard SP25/Rotel/Wharfedale level systems that were the norm in my circles back then.

They were significantly more expensive but very desirable and had a large following, certainly in SE London where I was at the time, An american import record had a lot of kudos in those days.

That's correct Pev and heavy weight pressings from the 70's and 80's too were very desirable and that is why today lots of these new vinyl companies press any old rubbish on 180 gm to try and fool the new record collector into thinking that because they are pressed on heavy weight 180 gm vinyl that they are automatically good quality and the vast majority are anything but.

Bob the Builder posted:

 very rewarding if you are careful and patient

Bob is right. Patience and a mint/very good copy of the original comes up. About today 180 grs.....well it's a mess as vinyl became popular again and many buy very bad prints but do not have a proper system that let them understand if the record is good or rubbish and the robbery goes on.  On the other side 40 years old vinyls can sound great on the cheapest system.....

If i can give an advise you might like joinin' the Discogs forums. It's a goldmine of informations that come from many people that spend their days listening to records. Before placing an order just read and then decide. And don't get frustrated if you can't get the best because too expensive. It's many times a compromise.....

There are pitfalls with just about any of the options. The vinyl bandwagon issues, especially jazz titles, where copyright may haved lapsed, where the source is a CD, vinyl itself or even radio broadcast tend to be poor. Some reissues can be good, I have happy experiences with Back To Black, but even then the sound definitely improves after using the RCM.

Then a while ago I was given an audiophile pressing of Stevie Ray Vaughan Couldn't Stand The Weather that has low volume, no dynamics compared to my first issue pressing.

Even original pressings are not a guarantee. I remember reading reviews of Paul Simon Graceland stating it was bland, dull, lacking interest. I could not reconcile this with what I was listening to, then went shopping to get a copy for a gift and it didn't feel right, the cover was paper thin and looking at the record the inner land was almost as wide as the grooved portion. This was explained in the shop as high demand meant pressing was subcontracted out of the UK. I found similar low standard copies of a number of Joan Armatrading albums, originating from (I think) Portugal or Greece.

Then there was the period when it was mandatory to check and only buy issues where the cutting lab or engineer was identified in the inner land with such markings as Sterling or a Porky Prime Cut. This is where Discogs can excel, listing the matrix numbers. Even this can fail. Some had mixed stampers, typically Joe Cocker Sheffield Steel can be found with only one side marked Sterling.

Good luck whichever way, and keep your fingers crossed, local news here reported a charity shop discovering a Jacqueline du Pre album, valued at £2000 on their shelf!