Hard drive storage/playback.

Mike1951 posted:

That's what I'm looking for. I'm interested in Hungry Halibut's cheaper option however, but he seems shy about telling me what it is...

Next numpty question - what exactly is a "network switch" in this context?

I was simply saying that a Nas is cheaper and more flexible. I happen to have a Qnap TS253A. There are loads of others that are just as good I'm sure, so I'm not going to say 'get this one'. If you want to go this way you can do lots of research on the Web or by searching the Forum. It does take a while to master streaming - I knew absolutely nothing about it when I started but did the research, asked questions, and worked things out. Nowadays I get 90% of my music as downloads, so something like a Core would be totally pointless. 

The Core isn't an "all in one player" and so I really don't think that the firmware update for the other new Unitis will apply to the Core (although we are expecting a firmware update for Core to bring some of the fixes that Naim have built into the Star e.g. The ripping monitor.)

best

David

The firmware update will apply to the ND5XS, right?

"Nowadays I get 90% of my music as downloads, so something like a Core would be totally pointless. "

What do you mean by "downloads"? Music files bought from an Internet site? I thought that's exactly what the Core is supposed to store and replay? 

Mike1951 posted:

<<<Snip>>>

What do you mean by "downloads"? Music files bought from an Internet site? I thought that's exactly what the Core is supposed to store and replay? 

Yes.

The Core (like UnitiServe) can:

* Rip music to its internal drive

* Store pirchased music files

The reason the Core is pointless for me is that I need to rip very few CDs. Putting a download on a Core is pretty much identical to putting it on a Nas. You need to download to your computer, check the metadata, and transfer it to the storage in either case. [You can in fact set things so that the downloads go straight to the Nas, but it is far easier to get it on your computer, fiddle about if required, and then copy it across]. 

As to the firmware update, the one coming later this month is only for the new Uniti players, providing Roon compatibility. It does not apply to the legacy boxes.

Mike1951 posted:

I haven't the slightest idea what "Roon" is. Isn't the Core a NAS? What has Tidal got to do with that?  Will that update not apply to my ND5XS, then?

Yes I want to move to downloading and storing music files. Yes I'm completely fed up with trying to get NAIM/Tidal to work. Yes there's no problem streaming radio stations. And YES! I'd like someone to recommend a Naim-compatible "NAS" that will do this.

Frankly, I wish I'd never moved from a CD-based system in the first place.

Mike, I am not going to recommend you any specific NAS or music server now!

I believe that you should not buy any new hardware at this point. You have already made a choice that you regret. Instead of investing money in new hardware, invest some time in getting a basic understanding of the notions involved in streaming. You do not need to make a doctoral degree: just read the MinimServer documentation on the MinimServer web page, in particular the section "Your music library". Also, browse through the web pages of "The well tempered computer" and get some basic understanding of your options.

This will take you one or two afternoons. In the meanwhile, reactivate your old CD player if you still have it around and enjoy your music. There is nothing wrong in a CD-based solution. In fact, if you are not prepared to learn some basic notions on data formats, data organisation, tagging and backup and if you do not want to invest quite some time in managing your data, you will be better off with a CD-based solution.

I wander who has recommended you buying the ND5XS if your original goal was listening to Tidal. But the ND5XS will become very handy if you will go for a LAN streaming solution, as you wish to do. By the way: you do not need to buy any NAS, Core, etc. to test whether LAN streaming is for you or not. MinimServer and Asset are very capable UPnP server that can run on any desktop, laptop, Raspberry Pi and on some NASes. Just buy a 35 EUR RPi and learn how to install and run MinimServer on it. If you do not like it, you can always give it away. All you have lost are 35 EUR. But you will have gained important knowledge!

Whether in the end it will make more sense to buy a NAS, a Core or simply running Asset or MinimServer on a Raspberry Pi is a question that you will have to answer by yourself. A Core is an integrated ripping station, NAS and SPDIF player. It is designed to be easy to use. But it also has some limitations you should be aware of. Thus, for instance, if you have a sizeable number of classical music CDs you should probably not buy a Core. Instead, go for a NAS that supports MinimServer or Asset or, if your music collection is not very large, simply run MinimServer on a Raspberry Pi and keep your music collection on a 1 or 2TB USB hard disk drive. Before you invest any significant amount of money, you should probably answer the following questions:

- How many CDs do I plan to rip? This is a fundamental question that informs your storage and backup decisions.

- Do I have or plan to buy classical music albums? This is also a fundamental question that informs your choice of a UPnP server.

- Am I setting up a system for a single listening room or do I plan a system that supports multi-room playback? This is yet another fundamental question that informs the choice of the device that runs your UPnP server and your network topology.

If you do not know how to answer these questions or if you do not want to deal with them, stay with a CD-based solution. I have not been looking at the CD-player market lately but I guess one can buy good CD player that support Qobuz, Tidal, etc. meanwhile. 

Mike1951 posted:

The firmware update will apply to the ND5XS, right?

No, as far as I understand, it will apply to the new Unity range: Core, Atom, Star and Nova. In fact, I am not sure it will apply to the Core. Best, nbpf

Mike1951 posted:

What do you mean by "downloads"? Music files bought from an Internet site? I thought that's exactly what the Core is supposed to store and replay? 

True but the point is that if all what you need is storing and serving music files (it does not actually matter whether you have bought them from an internet site or obtained by ripping your own CDs) a NAS or a Raspberry Pi are perhaps more flexible and certainly cheaper solutions.

nbpf posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

nbpf posted:

Gazza posted:

You need a Core then if like me you have no love of computers and want an easy set up. Yes there have been problems but most are fixed. There are just as many posts with set up problems with other devices.

Do you really think a Naim Uniti Core is going to help the OP getting Tidal without dropouts on his ND5XS? It will not, unfortunately.

But my understaning is that he's given up with Tidal and decided on ripped CDs.

However if he might still be interested in Tidal, this quote lifted from Naim's "Connections" newsletter on Friday: "A software update will be available at the end of October across the Uniti all-in-one players featuring Roon Ready". That does suggest to me that it includes the Core. Of course, if dropouts are due to the internet not the ND5XS, it will not fix that.

 

You are right, that's an interesting twist. If the Core player will support Tidal by becoming Roon ready, however, the OP will still have to connect the Core to the ND5XS via SPDIF thus bypassing the streaming module of the ND5XS. This is something that he could already try, e.g., via a Meridian Explorer connected to a mobile device. This would also provide him a definite answer to the question of whether the Tidal dropouts that he is experiencing with the ND5XS are caused by limitations in the current ND5XS firmware or by limitations of his LAN or internet connection. In fact, he does not even need to connect a phone to the ND5XS to make this test: just fire up the Tidal app on a iOS or Android phone and check whether this delivers streaming without dropouts or not. Only in this case it makes sense to think about ways of feeding the ND5XS with a Roon ready device via SPDIF.

Altrenatively replacing the ND5XS with a DAC, which could also improve sound quality, but that is extra cost so may not fit with the OP's needs.

Mike1951 posted:

I haven't the slightest idea what "Roon" is. Isn't the Core a NAS? What has Tidal got to do with that?  Will that update not apply to my ND5XS, then?

Yes I want to move to downloading and storing music files. Yes I'm completely fed up with trying to get NAIM/Tidal to work. Yes there's no problem streaming radio stations. And YES! I'd like someone to recommend a Naim-compatible "NAS" that will do this.

Frankly, I wish I'd never moved from a CD-based system in the first place.

In the context of the Naim Uniti range, Roon is the control software, and it seems to be quite easy to use. The key things I recall from trying it were that Tidal and one's own collection were almost indistinguishable, just one big library - which is good if you want Tidal (and assuming the Tidal streaming plays faultlessly), but annoying if you do 't want Tidal. It also offered suggestions for other music one might like based on current selection, and links tomother music by the same artisr(s), including, for example, other projects by individual members of a band. Personally i found the constant suggstions irritating, but others I am sure find them desirable. I assume that with the Uniti series Roon would actually run on a remote control device such as tablet or phone, and in effect what Naim have done is make their devices receptive to that control. If you were to get a Core, and it is Roon ready, then Roon is a available on a free trial basis to assess - though note  it is not a cheap app. Googling Roon will yield more information.

I think the problem with streaming is that it is not as straightforward as a one box CD player, because there is that need for a store for your own music, and various different solutions, mostly involving home computer networks, and while some seem to work flawlessly that is far from always the case judging by the regular pleas for help on this forum, and clearly much depends a lot on  the individual setup. Online streaming such as Tidal adds yet another dimension with its variables. The Uniti range seems to me to be intended to solve this problem by providing a 'hifi' solution rather than leaving it to the user to sort out, to different degrees depending on the model.

However, you have an ND5XS already, and if I understand correctly the problem is your attempt at Tidal streaming. The ND5 is a fine player - it can be bettered in terms of sound quality, at similar cost but more fiddly, or at greater cost, but that may be a future consideration considering that you have it. If you are abandoning Tidal the ND5 will perform well with a simple NAS setup. I used a cheap one, and regretted it because it was noisy, obtrusively so. The Qnap mentioned by others is silent - completely so if you invest in SSD drives, but still only minor hard disc noise with standard drives. A 'switch', which is effectively a multi-way network node, costing only a few 10s or £ can sit near the hifi, a network cable links the ND5 to the switch, another links the NAS to the switch, and another links the switch to an internet access point (usually a wireless router as well), used for internet radio and firmware updates. Others who use this setup can give more specific details of theirs, and someone on here might post a nice diagram. You will need a computer with CD drive if you want to rip your CD collection to store on the NAS, for which a piece of inexpensive software called dBPoweramp is ideal. 

When I swapped from CD to streaming - only from my own store - I felt it was a positive step, and it opened the door to things like hi-res downloads, however it does require a bit more of a hands-on approach setting up, something that I have oft suggeted should be a requirement for Naim dealers to at least offer to supply and set up (and guarrantee) a suitable network.

One other thing I hasitate to also mention because it is another hassle, but an essential consideration, is the need to ensure that the "metadata" stored as part of each music file is correct and sufficiently complete - that often is the case when ripped from CD and when purchased online, but - and this is the point - not universally so, and consistency seem worst with classical music (the same piece from different sources might be assigned as "symphony" or "orchestral" or "classical", and the composer might be "Mozart, W.A." or "W.A.Mozart", which can confound browsing or searching. It is far easier to address metadata as you go rather than once you have ammassed a collection, though if just starting I would suggest first looking at the metadata of several albums to get a feel for it and make your decisions regarding a convention that suits your needs. I wish I had been aware of this when I started out.

Mike, are you confident using a computer to do four things

1  Copy files to an external drive
2  Buy stuff over the internet
3  Install an application on your computer
4  Add a user account for another person (not actually required but setting up a NAS is a similar level of task)

If so the option of using a NAS drive (e.g. Synology DS216j, with pre-installed disks at about €400) is a viable option for you.  If you're not confident doing these then the Core is probably the way to go as it's simpler to set up and can rip CDs without using your computer.

Note that ripping disks using a computer is actually really easy, so far I've done a couple of thousand.
Once the ripping software is installed on your computer, first tell it which folder to use to write the music files.  Then for each disk...
Stick a CD in the drive, check it's identified the right disk and the right artwork, then press <Start>.  When it's finished (typically about 7 minutes), insert the next disk.

Mike1951 posted:

The firmware update will apply to the ND5XS, right?

The Roon Ready firmware update will be Atom, Star and Nova only. You can see this from the last update from Naim in the Uniti Progress Update thread in the top of the HiFi Corner room. You only need to read the first couple of paragraphs at the top of the thread.

There is a different firmware update coming for old Uniti and ND* which will improve Tidal for those with issues there and there is yet a further different update coming for Core which adds improvements from the Star development.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Mike1951 posted:

The firmware update will apply to the ND5XS, right?

The Roon Ready firmware update will be Atom, Star and Nova only. You can see this from the last update from Naim in the Uniti Progress Update thread in the top of the HiFi Corner room. You only need to read the first couple of paragraphs at the top of the thread.

There is a different firmware update coming for old Uniti and ND* which will improve Tidal for those with issues there and there is yet a further different update coming for Core which adds improvements from the Star development.

best

David

David, on a side track: there is a post on https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...s-core-as-nas-source suggesting that one can run Asset on the Core. Is this correct? Is it a recent development? Thanks, nbpf

David Hendon posted:

Mike1951 posted:

The firmware update will apply to the ND5XS, right?

The Roon Ready firmware update will be Atom, Star and Nova only. You can see this from the last update from Naim in the Uniti Progress Update thread in the top of the HiFi Corner room. You only need to read the first couple of paragraphs at the top of the thread.

There is a different firmware update coming for old Uniti and ND* which will improve Tidal for those with issues there and there is yet a further different update coming for Core which adds improvements from the Star development.

best

David

Ah, I stand corrected - Naim's Connections magazine just said Uniti all in one players - and of course that depends on interpretation as to how much is "all n one".

nbpf posted:

 

 

 

David, on a side track: there is a post on https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...s-core-as-nas-source suggesting that one can run Asset on the Core. Is this correct? Is it a recent development? Thanks, nbpf

No I think that's a misunderstanding. I have seen nothing anywhere to suggest that you can run anything on the Core, except the software that Naim has installed on it.

As I said in an earlier post, Naim have announced in this Forum, a few days ago, Roon Ready for Atom, Star and Nova. If it were also to apply to Core they would surely have said so at the same time, so I think we can be certain that it will not apply to the Core, at least not anytime soon.

best

David

nbpf posted:

Mike1951 posted:

I haven't the slightest idea what "Roon" is. Isn't the Core a NAS? What has Tidal got to do with that?  Will that update not apply to my ND5XS, then?

Yes I want to move to downloading and storing music files. Yes I'm completely fed up with trying to get NAIM/Tidal to work. Yes there's no problem streaming radio stations. And YES! I'd like someone to recommend a Naim-compatible "NAS" that will do this.

Frankly, I wish I'd never moved from a CD-based system in the first place.

Mike, I am not going to recommend you any specific NAS or music server now!

I believe that you should not buy any new hardware at this point. You have already made a choice that you regret. Instead of investing money in new hardware, invest some time in getting a basic understanding of the notions involved in streaming. You do not need to make a doctoral degree: just read the MinimServer documentation on the MinimServer web page, in particular the section "Your music library". Also, browse through the web pages of "The well tempered computer" and get some basic understanding of your options.

This will take you one or two afternoons. In the meanwhile, reactivate your old CD player if you still have it around and enjoy your music. There is nothing wrong in a CD-based solution. In fact, if you are not prepared to learn some basic notions on data formats, data organisation, tagging and backup and if you do not want to invest quite some time in managing your data, you will be better off with a CD-based solution.

I wander who has recommended you buying the ND5XS if your original goal was listening to Tidal. But the ND5XS will become very handy if you will go for a LAN streaming solution, as you wish to do. By the way: you do not need to buy any NAS, Core, etc. to test whether LAN streaming is for you or not. MinimServer and Asset are very capable UPnP server that can run on any desktop, laptop, Raspberry Pi and on some NASes. Just buy a 35 EUR RPi and learn how to install and run MinimServer on it. If you do not like it, you can always give it away. All you have lost are 35 EUR. But you will have gained important knowledge!

Whether in the end it will make more sense to buy a NAS, a Core or simply running Asset or MinimServer on a Raspberry Pi is a question that you will have to answer by yourself. A Core is an integrated ripping station, NAS and SPDIF player. It is designed to be easy to use. But it also has some limitations you should be aware of. Thus, for instance, if you have a sizeable number of classical music CDs you should probably not buy a Core. Instead, go for a NAS that supports MinimServer or Asset or, if your music collection is not very large, simply run MinimServer on a Raspberry Pi and keep your music collection on a 1 or 2TB USB hard disk drive. Before you invest any significant amount of money, you should probably answer the following questions:

- How many CDs do I plan to rip? This is a fundamental question that informs your storage and backup decisions.

- Do I have or plan to buy classical music albums? This is also a fundamental question that informs your choice of a UPnP server.

- Am I setting up a system for a single listening room or do I plan a system that supports multi-room playback? This is yet another fundamental question that informs the choice of the device that runs your UPnP server and your network topology.

If you do not know how to answer these questions or if you do not want to deal with them, stay with a CD-based solution. I have not been looking at the CD-player market lately but I guess one can buy good CD player that support Qobuz, Tidal, etc. meanwhile.  

Clearly, the very need for the detailed Responses some of us are giving highlights the difference between a straight hifi solution like a CD player, and streaming where tgat is not a single box solution.

With reference to the highlighted text above, actually all you need for the tome being before getting a NAS is any computer plus a cheap 'network switch' and and attach the ND5, computer and internet access point/router to the switch, install a free UPnP server software on the computer (almost anything will do, and one may already exist. Two free ones I used successfully were Serviio and Logitech Media Server, plus a smartphone or tablet on which to install the Naim app to control all. If you then want to improve things by getting a NAS you simply plug it into the switch as well and transfer the music to it over the network.

Even easier with Windows 7 and above, they already include a DLNA Media Server by default - Just turn on "Media Streaming" from
<Control Panel> <Home Group>
or
<Control Panel> <Network and Sharing Center>

David Hendon posted:

nbpf posted:

 

 

 

David, on a side track: there is a post on https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...s-core-as-nas-source suggesting that one can run Asset on the Core. Is this correct? Is it a recent development? Thanks, nbpf

No I think that's a misunderstanding. I have seen nothing anywhere to suggest that you can run anything on the Core, except the software that Naim has installed on it.

...

Thanks for the clarification David! Best, nbpf

Well I've taken an initial step that's improved the situation and I've got other options. I've gone into it in the other thread so I won't repeat it here.

Just a word about the firmware update re: ND5XS.  This from Phil in that other thread:

"of course the awaited 4.5 update does have some additional buffering tweaks (these are already in the Mu-so and Qb 1.5 firmware) which should make the streamers more forgiving of higher latency connections but it isn't a cure-all and for anyone anyone who is having TIDAL streaming and who contacts us then we do make that Beta firmware available to them as an option that they can try, however, as it isn't yet signed off for final sound quality then we won't just blanket release it. That firmware is applicable to Uniti / Uniti2 / UnitiLite / SuperUniti / NAC-N172 / NAC-N272 / ND5XS / NDX / NDS and as a Beta is available in English only."

And I think that's enough for now. 

Hasta la vista.